13 weeks (with equipment)

[davebates]

Greetings:
Here is the program I start everyone out on who wants to use equipment for a meet.

doc.erictalmant.com/13%20wk%20beginner%20program_equipment_.doc

pdf.erictalmant.com/13%20wk%20beginner%20program%20_equipment_.pdf

in excel
www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=8ae88465c65a306ad2db6fb9a8902bda

[Deleted]

How appropriate do you consider this program for someone who is new to gear?

[davebates]

Honestly, I think it would work very well. You will be very comfortable in your equipment come meet time.
Give it a try and let me know how it goes

-Dave

[Deleted]

Dec 12, 2008 1:13:32 GMT -5 davebates said:

Honestly, I think it would work very well. You will be very comfortable in your equipment come meet time.
Give it a try and let me know how it goes

-Dave

I will report back in April some time! How about for benching?
I'm not going to get most weights down to the chest obviously. Just get it down as far as I can or use boards?

[Deleted]

I've just put this programme into excel so I can imput my maxes and print them out easily. If anyone else is interested:

www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=8ae88465c65a306ad2db6fb9a8902bda

[Deleted]

So when it doesn't say shirt/suit are you basing it off of your raw max? When it says shirt/suit use the corresponding max?

[davebates]

For the bench shirt, most guys have a looser shirt that allows them to touch with the lighter weights.

For equipment training use your raw maxes for the warm ups, then use the equipped maxes for the suit / shirt work.

-Dave

[Deleted]

I can't really afford to get two shirts at this stage. What should I do to work around it then?

[davebates]

Hi Dave,
We will half to get some other guys to give us some feedback on using a shirt with lighter weights. I have not used a shirt in a very long time. It is my understanding that you can pull the shirt up a little bit in order for you to be able to touch lighter weights. Plan B would be just go down as far as you can without breaking form. Hopefully some of the equipment guys will give us some more feedback.

-Dave

[Deleted]

Sweet thanks. I'll see if I can find some larger second hand gear anyway.

[davebates]

make sure you check out the training forum too. Some lifters are giving their feedback for equipment use.

[Deleted]

I've managed to secure the use of a looser squat suit, now just have to work on the bench shirt.

I've had a scroll through the programme and noticed the vaste majority of the work is 75-80%. Except for the skills evaluation in week 9 the % only goes to 85% once and twice for bench and squat respectively. I assume this would be the best time to use my tighter gear?

And which athlete logs should I look at?

[davebates]

Dec 14, 2008 23:54:28 GMT -5 @dave said:

I've managed to secure the use of a looser squat suit, now just have to work on the bench shirt.

I've had a scroll through the programme and noticed the vaste majority of the work is 75-80%. Except for the skills evaluation in week 9 the % only goes to 85% once and twice for bench and squat respectively. I assume this would be the best time to use my tighter gear?
Sure give it a try...

And which athlete logs should I look at?

That one is going to be tough because I'm not sure if I know anyone who puts their logs up...

[benburgess]

Dec 14, 2008 23:54:28 GMT -5 @dave said:

I've managed to secure the use of a looser squat suit, now just have to work on the bench shirt.

I've had a scroll through the programme and noticed the vaste majority of the work is 75-80%. Except for the skills evaluation in week 9 the % only goes to 85% once and twice for bench and squat respectively. I assume this would be the best time to use my tighter gear?

And which athlete logs should I look at?

Dave maybe i can chip in here, i'm no elite lifter but i have run quite a few sheiko cycles with equipment.

What i would do is use a board and lift raw for weights you cant touch. If you are going to be any good in a shirt you are going to have to be able to lock out your shirted max off a board height that is approximately one-third to halfway through your stroke (i.e where the shirt stops helping) without the shirt.

Dave B is right with regards to touching a light weight, let the collar ride high and dont belt the shirt, tuck your elbows at the bottom and you will be able to touch a lot lighter weights.

If you dont have a loose shirt, what i would do is run Dave's 13wk program, and where it says 'bench shirt' and the %'age is <84%, use a 4" or 6" board (depending how long your arms are) and base the load off your shirted max but dont wear a shirt.

Where the program says 'bench shirt' and the %'age is >84% (i.e. 85 - 100%) wear the shirt. If you cant touch 85% in your shirt try the techniques above and also use a low board e.g 2". If you cant touch 90% then your in trouble anyway, cos what are you gonna open with!!

In terms of equipped Sheiko logs, the one to look out for is one of the most sucessful Sheiko users and a brilliant lifter - Wade Hooper. He films all his sessions in the run up to a big meet and puts them on YouTube. He doesnt film all the assistance work but you can get a good idea of what he's doing. He does a lot of floor press and bench with chains for his shirted bench but id stick with a basic 1/3-1/2 ROM board press for now especially as you are new to equipment.

Having said ALL that, if you are really new to gear having time learning the shirt and the technique needed is really invaluable, so try and get a loose shirt too. If you do, id use raw boards up to 70-75%, the loose shirt for stuff at 80% and the tight one for 85+

I hope this helps

[Deleted]

Thanks heaps Ben! That sounds like exactly what I'm after.

[davebates]

Dec 15, 2008 14:13:48 GMT -5 benburgess said:

Dec 14, 2008 23:54:28 GMT -5 @dave said:

I've managed to secure the use of a looser squat suit, now just have to work on the bench shirt.

I've had a scroll through the programme and noticed the vaste majority of the work is 75-80%. Except for the skills evaluation in week 9 the % only goes to 85% once and twice for bench and squat respectively. I assume this would be the best time to use my tighter gear?

And which athlete logs should I look at?

Dave maybe i can chip in here, i'm no elite lifter but i have run quite a few sheiko cycles with equipment.

What i would do is use a board and lift raw for weights you cant touch. If you are going to be any good in a shirt you are going to have to be able to lock out your shirted max off a board height that is approximately one-third to halfway through your stroke (i.e where the shirt stops helping) without the shirt.

Dave B is right with regards to touching a light weight, let the collar ride high and dont belt the shirt, tuck your elbows at the bottom and you will be able to touch a lot lighter weights.

If you dont have a loose shirt, what i would do is run Dave's 13wk program, and where it says 'bench shirt' and the %'age is <84%, use a 4" or 6" board (depending how long your arms are) and base the load off your shirted max but dont wear a shirt.

Where the program says 'bench shirt' and the %'age is >84% (i.e. 85 - 100%) wear the shirt. If you cant touch 85% in your shirt try the techniques above and also use a low board e.g 2". If you cant touch 90% then your in trouble anyway, cos what are you gonna open with!!

In terms of equipped Sheiko logs, the one to look out for is one of the most sucessful Sheiko users and a brilliant lifter - Wade Hooper. He films all his sessions in the run up to a big meet and puts them on YouTube. He doesnt film all the assistance work but you can get a good idea of what he's doing. He does a lot of floor press and bench with chains for his shirted bench but id stick with a basic 1/3-1/2 ROM board press for now especially as you are new to equipment.

Having said ALL that, if you are really new to gear having time learning the shirt and the technique needed is really invaluable, so try and get a loose shirt too. If you do, id use raw boards up to 70-75%, the loose shirt for stuff at 80% and the tight one for 85+

I hope this helps

I think ben is right on. Anybody else try this?

[spsfw]

This all highlights the issue I asked about in another thread. Can you adjust % and volume on 37 or 32 to get some sets in with 85%-90% or would 30 or 31 be better suited to shirted lifting?
Here is what happened to me- I had 2 shirts, but the one that was loose enough to touch my 70% (396lbs) was basically so loose that it was like lifting raw. This didn't prepare me for a tighter comp shirt. My best bench is 578lbs- a good comp shirt will be touching around 500. But even my 85% is under this- so what happened was that I did not get to come close to a touch in my comp shirt till skills assessment day (I struggled to touch 90%)- and the next time was comp day. I ended up having to sort things out on the platform that I would have preferred to figure out in the gym. As far as strength development goes- I have no problems with the 37+32 combo- I am just trying to figure out how to avoid getting into the same situation again. Ideas?

[davebates]

Dec 16, 2008 2:47:53 GMT -5 spsfw said:

This all highlights the issue I asked about in another thread. Can you adjust % and volume on 37 or 32 to get some sets in with 85%-90% or would 30 or 31 be better suited to shirted lifting?

We really should not change the volume of the program, I like what Ben has written about this. Check it out. It's on here some place

Here is what happened to me- I had 2 shirts, but the one that was loose enough to touch my 70% (396lbs) was basically so loose that it was like lifting raw. This didn't prepare me for a tighter comp shirt. My best bench is 578lbs- a good comp shirt will be touching around 500. But even my 85% is under this- so what happened was that I did not get to come close to a touch in my comp shirt till skills assessment day (I struggled to touch 90%)- and the next time was comp day. I ended up having to sort things out on the platform that I would have preferred to figure out in the gym. As far as strength development goes- I have no problems with the 37+32 combo- I am just trying to figure out how to avoid getting into the same situation again. Ideas?

Ok bench guys, this man needs our help.
Let say he is going to run #37 but the volume is reduced (first 4 weeks of the 13wk equipment program) and #32
is it better for him to do board work in his tight shirt one day a week?
Sp, How far down can you go with 435? (75%) 2 board range? 3 board?
Lifters, is it possible to do the sets and reps required of this program?
For example
wk 1 in the reduced volume program calls for 75% 4 sets of triples,
wk 2 calls for 80% 4 sets of doubles,
wk 3 calls for 80% 4 sets of triples.
wk 4 is 80% for a triple, then 2 doubles at 85%
wk 5 deload on monday, skills eval up to 95% on Wednesday.

Would other days would be done Raw? or a loose shirt?

Thoughts.. everybody?

[spsfw]

I think I could get 435 close to a 3 board height. My concern however is that reduced ROM will have a different training effect to full ROM. Ben's idea of using raw boards works as a substitute for shirted work because it simulates the shirt and trains the lockout. If you do partials in a shirt the effect is different isn't it? Is a way of reducing the volume further and increasing the % more? I think all other days should be raw.

[davebates]

Dec 16, 2008 5:57:23 GMT -5 spsfw said:

I think I could get 435 close to a 3 board height. My concern however is that reduced ROM will have a different training effect to full ROM. Ben's idea of using raw boards works as a substitute for shirted work because it simulates the shirt and trains the lockout.

If you do partials in a shirt the effect is different isn't it?
I think so, hopefully the lifters that use shirts will give us some feedback.
What I was wondering if you could do the weight without your shirt at the 3 board range? for example: 435 for 4 sets of triples? for wk 1

Is a way of reducing the volume further and increasing the % more?
Sure, I'm not sure it would build your strength. I have something I wrote a while ago where I handled weights in the 91% range with a reduced volume. I got better at handling the weights in the 91% range but I did not get any stronger

I think all other days should be raw.
Agreed..
Hopefully we will get this stuff worked out so everyone will get stronger.