13 weeks (with equipment)

[spsfw]

I think this helps with the issue of strength development for shirted bench, but for me it would still mean no touch in my comp shirt. This is why I am wondering if, for me, going with 31 equipped might be better than modifying 37. In 31 week one I'd get 4 doubles @85%, week two I'd get 3 singles @90% and week four again 4 doubles @85%. So, I guess I am wondering if 31 & 32 might work better for me than 37 &32- or perhaps 37 then 31 then 32.

[Deleted]

Interesting discussion. I'd also like to get more practice at touching with the comp shirt than the beginner programme allows for.

sfwsp I assume you're Humphrey? I'm DaveH from the Powerhouse forum.

[spsfw]

Dec 16, 2008 20:42:56 GMT -5 @dave said:

Interesting discussion. I'd also like to get more practice at touching with the comp shirt than the beginner programme allows for.

sfwsp I assume you're Humphrey? I'm DaveH from the Powerhouse forum.

yes- I am the man of many names ;D that's one of my least fortunate nicknames- humphrey b bear.

[joeldibattista]

Humphrey? LOL!

[davebates]

Dec 16, 2008 18:42:19 GMT -5 spsfw said:

I think this helps with the issue of strength development for shirted bench, but for me it would still mean no touch in my comp shirt. This is why I am wondering if, for me, going with 31 equipped might be better than modifying 37. In 31 week one I'd get 4 doubles @85%, week two I'd get 3 singles @90% and week four again 4 doubles @85%. So, I guess I am wondering if 31 & 32 might work better for me than 37 &32- or perhaps 37 then 31 then 32.

Ok Sp,
I have crunched some numbers and I don't see a problem with what you want to try. So, it's time for you to be the test subject.
Here is what I would like you to try, print out the 13 week equipment program. The volume of the program will be low enough in the first 4 weeks for what you want to try..
we will use the first 4 weeks and the last 4 weeks and see how your body reacts to the training.
Here is my thinking...
Keep the other days raw on the bench..
conditioning week- do as written
Week one- do it as written (no equipment)
For the rest of the weeks, do the warm ups based off the raw max. Once you put your shirt on, use the first set @ 70 % for 3 reps to "set your shirt" This number should be based off your equipped max.
week 2- (Monday) after the 70% (405) in your shirt, do 4 sets @ 85% (491) for doubles
week 3- (Monday) after the 70% (405) in your shirt,do 3 sets @ 90% (520) for singles
week 4- (Monday) after the 70% (405) in your shirt, do 4 sets @ 85% (491) for doubles
jump to week 9,
Do (Monday) as written
Wednesday (skills evaluation) do as written.
Let us know how it goes...

Once you get this far we will workout the other 3 weeks for a test day or a meet.
Thoughts?

[spsfw]

sounds great Dave. I have just started a training block with you (its Stephen Pritchard)- I did the conditioning week and I am half way through week 1. Basically I have 15 more weeks till meet day- so if we do the plan- weeks 2-4, then week 9- this gives me 11 more weeks. If it works- could we then try a longer version? Do I stay raw for the other lifts for this experiment?

[davebates]

Dec 17, 2008 6:58:56 GMT -5 spsfw said:

sounds great Dave. I have just started a training block with you (its Stephen Pritchard)- I did the conditioning week and I am half way through week 1. Basically I have 15 more weeks till meet day- so if we do the plan- weeks 2-4, then week 9- this gives me 11 more weeks. If it works- could we then try a longer version? Do I stay raw for the other lifts for this experiment?

Hi Stephen, this forum stuff is all new to me.
For now, lets stay raw on the other 2 lifts. I Updated your file and sent you a hard copy of what I'm talking about so you can see. I want the readers of the forum to be able to follow too. If your skills evaluation goes well, I will crunch the numbers for a longer version.

[spsfw]

great- thanks.

[benburgess]

I agree with Stephen that shirted boards with (say) 80% of your equipped max are a hell of a different proposition to a raw board with 80% of your equipped I cant see anyone getting much training effect from 80% equipped to a board.

If anything, a shirted board should be 100% +


Just to get this straight in my head, Steve, your gonna run the full #31 equipped into the #32, or just the day 1 bench %'ages of the #31, with the rest of the stuff from the #37???

I've run the #31 into the #32 (equipped) and it worked pretty good for me. #31 is a brutal cycle, esp the giant sets, but you're a much higher rating than me so maybe you'll find it easier.

[davebates]

Dec 18, 2008 16:51:19 GMT -5 benburgess said:

I agree with Stephen that shirted boards with (say) 80% of your equipped max are a hell of a different proposition to a raw board with 80% of your equipped I cant see anyone getting much training effect from 80% equipped to a board.

If anything, a shirted board should be 100% +


Just to get this straight in my head, Steve, your gonna run the full #31 equipped into the #32, or just the day 1 bench %'ages of the #31, with the rest of the stuff from the #37???

That is the basic idea ben, I have been working with Stephen for a while. I have designed a custom cycle to fit his needs.
Basically we are going to run the first 4 weeks of the 13wk equipped program on this forum with the bench % changed on Monday for his shirt work. The other days will be run without equipment and the other lifts too. If it goes well then I will crunch some more numbers and make a longer cycle for his meet using all of his equipment.

I've run the #31 into the #32 (equipped) and it worked pretty good for me. #31 is a brutal cycle, esp the giant sets, but you're a much higher rating than me so maybe you'll find it easier.

[Deleted]

the above post is great.

Frankly, you are not going to gain a ton of strength in your bench during a sheiko cycle. Any bench progress should have been made during the offseason. The key to benching during sheiko is under-doing it, rather than over-doing it. I follow numbers to a T with squating and deadlift... and about 75% of the time, I do so with benching as well. It's the 25% where the lifter needs to feel his/her way though things, and do so conservatively. Sometimes i'll increase the intensity, do board work, and cut back the volume.

All this depends on the build of the lifter too. I have long arms, and get killed from benching more than 2 days. I end up doing one day of bench (monday) one day of floor pressing (friday) and one day of OHPs (Wed). I have my reasons for these three moves, although alternates could include DB pressing or 2/3 board work... as long as you know the correct coefficient to place on your raw, full range bench.

It's important to understand sheiko is a volume/intensity template. Treat it as such.

[Deleted]

what do you mean by the offseason and what do you do in the offseason that is different from a sheiko cycle

[Deleted]

During inseason training, you work primarily on technique, efficiency, performance in equipment, and general preparedness for a meet. Offseason training focuses on bring up weak areas and raw strength.


Not to say sheiko cannot bring up raw strenght. It certainly can. But weakness is not easily addressed in sheiko.


conjugate periodization is what I use during my offseasons (15-30 weeks out from a meet). I use the ME, RE and DE methods.

[davebates]

Jan 2, 2009 17:56:51 GMT -5 @djstarer said:

During inseason training, you work primarily on technique, efficiency, performance in equipment, and general preparedness for a meet. Offseason training focuses on bring up weak areas and raw strength.


Not to say sheiko cannot bring up raw strenght. It certainly can. But weakness is not easily addressed in sheiko.
Greetings dj:
give us an example of how you would address a weakness.



conjugate periodization is what I use during my offseasons (15-30 weeks out from a meet). I use the ME, RE and DE methods.

[spsfw]

I guess different people respond in different ways- I trained westside for about 3 years and before switching to sheiko last August. I feel more balanced as a lifter and have made the most solid increases in raw and equipped strength since I started training over ten years ago. I have tried a lot of things for bench and for me this is the best.

[Deleted]

I know where you're going with this Dave, and generally, I agree with you. Most errors in the squat and deadlift can be adressed in sheiko. It's the bench, in my opinion which needs an offseason.

My triceps, for instance, may not be as strong as I would like. While I believe a raw bencher might benefit from wave loading patters, training weekly in the 90-95% range for numerous singles is not possible in sheiko. It's the ME method, followed by training in the 6-12 rep range for growth, which stimulates my triceps to get stronger. For my competition bench, handing loads in the 100-105% of my raw max for singles, doubles and triples seems to bring up my shirted bench faster than anything. Handling heavy weight seems to sink my breathing with my reps, and teaches me to grind.

As for the squat, after I train 12 weeks for a meet, using briefs and a belt for a large % of my worksets, my glutes and core lose their condition. We all know the best way to get comfy in gear is to use it often... but as we also know, raw strength, especially in the 80+% range, goes down the tubes. Even with the secondary squating, it's not enough intensity to get to the glutes... especially after being gassed from the initial worksets.

I also find injuries begin to pop up when working the same exercise for long periods of time. I can get away with this when prepping for a meet because my gear keeps my hips and back in check.

Just my thoughts.

[davebates]

Jan 2, 2009 22:42:18 GMT -5 @djstarer said:

I know where you're going with this Dave, and generally, I agree with you. Most errors in the squat and deadlift can be adressed in sheiko. It's the bench, in my opinion which needs an offseason.

My triceps, for instance, may not be as strong as I would like. While I believe a raw bencher might benefit from wave loading patters, training weekly in the 90-95% range for numerous singles is not possible in sheiko. It's the ME method, followed by training in the 6-12 rep range for growth, which stimulates my triceps to get stronger. For my competition bench, handing loads in the 100-105% of my raw max for singles, doubles and triples seems to bring up my shirted bench faster than anything. Handling heavy weight seems to sink my breathing with my reps, and teaches me to grind.

Thank you Dj,
This is the kind of feedback from lifters we are looking for on this forum.
What works and what has not.
what are your thoughts on this post for the bench?
He has a super tight shirt so after crunching some numbers this is what we have decided to try. It's part of the 13 week equipment program.
Week one- do it as written (no equipment)
Shirt work is done once a week..
For the rest of the weeks, do the warm ups based off the raw max. Once you put your shirt on, use the first set @ 70 % for 3 reps to "set your shirt" This number should be based off your equipped max.
week 2- (Monday) after the 70% (405) in your shirt, do 4 sets @ 85% (491) for doubles
week 3- (Monday) after the 70% (405) in your shirt,do 3 sets @ 90% (520) for singles
week 4- (Monday) after the 70% (405) in your shirt, do 4 sets @ 85% (491) for doubles
jump to week 9, for a skills evaluation.

Do you think your CNS would recover ok?

As for the squat, after I train 12 weeks for a meet, using briefs and a belt for a large % of my worksets, my glutes and core lose their condition. We all know the best way to get comfy in gear is to use it often... but as we also know, raw strength, especially in the 80+% range, goes down the tubes. Even with the secondary squating, it's not enough intensity to get to the glutes... especially after being gassed from the initial worksets.

Are you in your equipment more than once a week?

I also find injuries begin to pop up when working the same exercise for long periods of time. I can get away with this when prepping for a meet because my gear keeps my hips and back in check.

So could you do some GPP stuff to help keep things in check?

Just my thoughts.

Thank you in advance for sharing your thoughts..

[Deleted]

Dave, that cycle looks great. That's the intensity I'm talking about when pertaining to bench. I really like the way that cycle looks: sensible, yet aggressive. I believe if the proper numbers are picked, that sort of 4 week endeavor would be just fine during a prep portion of the meet cycle. It's certainly something I could consider in the offseason. Generally, I tend to wave my max effort work as well... with week 1 being a 3rm, week two containing 2X a heavy set of 5, finished off with week 3 being a 1rm. I've done this for the last 12 weeks or so, and PRed 5-10 lbs each time I reach 1rm. While it does not follow any exact %s, it does follow some volume intensity rules, all of which are governed in my brain based on how heavy things feel. The fourth week, of course, is a deload, where I do very light, high volume moves.


To answer the equipment questions: during a prep cycle, I get into my briefs and belt 1X per week to start, then being doing 2X per week, including wraps and straps as I get closer to my skills evaluation. After the skill evaluation, all work in the 85%+ region is done with full gear. Numbers, of course, change as I use more/different combos of equipment.

The GPP idea is new to me. I do a ton of sled and prowler work during the offseason (just generally to maintain my volume base), but drop it during meet prep. If I were to (for example) keep the prowler in my trianing, I would venture to say I'd keep it very light, and at a walking pace. What are your thoughts on GPP?

[Deleted]

Hello to all! wonderfull Board! Till 1 year or so sheiko will became a fashon style training like pilates of water gag:-)

I'm trainer of junior powerlifting team since 2006. Always used Sheiko style training. We compete in IPF so we use gear. So I'd like to let you know how I use them in training. Hope you interested in it. I dont want to teach nothing, just my happy experience.

I try for myself to be as near as possible to what Sheiko (also in using gear) said, because generally, it works better then other things so:

Let's take beginner 1 as exemple (#37)

when i write COMPETITION SQUAT (deadlift) it means that ALL "%" are taken from the best meet result, so equipmented. In bench press everythings is on raw maxes.

Monthly Training Plan - 1

1 WEEK
1 day (Monday)
1.Bench press 50% 5Õ1,60% 4Õ2,70% 3Õ2,75% 3Õ5.(34)
2.COMPETITION SQUAT 50% 5Õ1, LIGHT WRAPS !IF NEEDED! 60% 5Õ2, ONLY WRAPS 65% to 70% 5Õ5.(40) it depends on condition of the lifter and how good he can use wraps. It's a very hard workout, but it's worthy.
3.Bench press 50% 6Õ1,60% 6Õ2,65% 6Õ4.(42)
4.Flat dumbbells “flies”10Õ5.
5.”Good mornings” (standing) 5Õ5.
Total: 116 lifts

3 day (Wednesday)
1.Deadlift 50% 5Õ1,60% 5Õ2,70% 4Õ2,75% 3Õ4.(35)
2.Incline bench press 4Õ6.
3.Dips 5Õ5.
4.Deadlift from boxes 50% 5Õ1,60% 5Õ2,70% 4Õ2,80% 3Õ4.(35)
5.Squats “Scissors” 5+5Õ5.
6.Abs 10Õ3.
Total: 65 lifts

5 day (Friday)
1.Reverse band Bench press or board press or normal Bench press 50% 7Õ1,55% 6Õ1,60% 5Õ1,65% 4Õ1, 70% 3Õ2,75% 2Õ2,70% 3Õ2,65% 4Õ1, 60% 6Õ1,55% 8Õ1,50% 10Õ1.(66) All this are based on bech shirt max if we use reverse band or board press.
2.Flat dumbbells “flies”10Õ5.
3.Squat 50% 5Õ1,60% 4Õ2,70% 3Õ2,75% 3Õ5.(34)
4.French press 10Õ5.
5.”Good mornings” (seating) 5Õ5.
Total: 100 lifts
Total in a week: 286 lifts

2 WEEK
1 day (Monday)
1.COMPETITION SQUAT 50% 5Õ1,60% 4Õ2, WRAPS 70% 3Õ2, OLD SUIT STRAPS DOWN 80%2Õ5.(29)
2.Bench press 50% 5Õ1,60% 4Õ1,70% 3Õ2,80% 2Õ6.(27)
3.Flat dumbbells “flies”10Õ5.
4.Push ups on the floor with weight (hands shoulders wider) 10Õ5
5.Squat 55% 3Õ1,65% 3Õ1,75% 3Õ4.(18)
6.”Good mornings” (standing) 5Õ5.
Total: 74 lifts
the problem here is that the workout riscks to became too long.

3 day (Wednesday)
1.Deadlift till knees 50% 4Õ1,60% 4Õ2,70% 4Õ4.(28)
2.Bench press 50% 5Õ1,60% 5Õ2,70% 4Õ5.(35)
3.Flat dumbbells “flies”10Õ5.
4.Deadlift 50% 4Õ1,60% 4Õ1,70% 3Õ2,75% 3Õ5.(29)
5.Squat “scissors” 5+5Õ5.

5 day (Friday)
1.Squat 50% 4Õ1,60% 4Õ1,70% 3Õ2,75% 3Õ6(29)
2.Bench press 50% 6Õ1,60% 5Õ1,70% 4Õ2,75% 3Õ2,80% 2Õ2,
SHIRT BENCH PRESS WITH 2 BOARD 100% 3Õ1, 110% 3Õ1, 120 % 2Õ3. That's the only way i could use a bench shirt in a sheiko training. let's say once every 15 day, using a board press to tuch. going along with training week the athlete must menage a lower board. Never go too heavy or badly too failure. Using a soo loose bench shirt that let you tuch with 70% is difficult in reality. So even % must change.
3.Flat dumbbells “flies”10Õ5.
4.Triceps 10Õ5.
5.Squat 55% 3Õ1,65% 3Õ1,75% 2Õ4.(14)
6.”Good mornings” (seated) 6Õ5.
Total: 80 lifts

In 3d week (volume's one) sometimes we not use any gear in this week. workout tends to became very long.
3 WEEK
1 day (Monday)
1.COMPETION SQUAT 50% 5Õ1,60% 4Õ2, WRAPS 70% 3Õ2, SUIT DOWN 80% 3Õ5.(34)
2.Bench press 50% 5Õ1,60% 4Õ1,70% 3Õ2,80% 3Õ5.(30)
3.Flat dumbbells “flies”10Õ5.
4.Push ups with weight 10Õ5.
5.Squat 50% 5Õ1,60% 5Õ1,70% 5Õ5.(35)
6.”Good mornings” (standing) 5Õ5.
Total: 99 lifts
3 day (Wednesday)
1.Deadlift till knees 50% 4Õ1,60% 4Õ1,70% 4Õ2,75% 4Õ4(32)
2.Bench press 50% 6Õ1,60% 5Õ1,70% 4Õ2,75% 3Õ2, 80% 2Õ2,75% 3õ2,70% 4Õ1,65% 5Õ1, 60% 6Õ1,55% 7Õ1,50% 8Õ1.(65)
3.Flat dumbbells “flies”10Õ5.
4.Deadlift from boxes 60% 5Õ1,70% 5Õ2,80% 4Õ4.(31)
5.Squat “Scissors” 5+5Õ5.
6.Abs 10Õ3.

5 day (Friday)
1.Bench press 50% 5Õ1,60% 4Õ1,70% 3Õ2,80% 2Õ5.(25)
2.Squat 50% 5Õ1,60% 5Õ1,70% 5Õ2,75% 4Õ5.(40)
3.Bench press 50% 6Õ1,60% 6Õ2,65% 6Õ4.(42)
4.Flat dumbbells “flies”10Õ5.
5.”Good mornings” (standing) 5Õ5.


4 WEEK
1 day (Monday))
1.COMPETITION SQUAT 50% 5Õ1,60% 4Õ1, WRAPS 70% 3Õ2, SUITE DOWN LIGHT WRAPS80% 3Õ2, SUITE DOWN HARD WRAPS 85% 2Õ3.(27)
2.Bench press 50% 5Õ1,60% 4Õ1,70% 3Õ2,80% 3Õ5.(30)
3.Flat dumbbells “flies”10Õ5.
4.Dips 8Õ5.
5.Squat 50% 5Õ1,60% 4Õ1,70% 3Õ2,80% 2Õ4.(23)
6.”Good mornings” (standing) 5Õ5.
Total: 80 lifts
3 day (Wednesday)
1.Bench press 50% 5Õ1,60% 4Õ1,70% 3Õ2,80% 3Õ2, 85% 2Õ3.(27)
2.Deadlift 50% 4Õ1,60% 4Õ1,70% 3Õ2,80% 3Õ2, 85% 2Õ3.(26) CULD USE DL SUITE BUT FOR ME IS NOT SO IMPORTANt in dl training.
3.Bench press 55% 5Õ1,65% 5Õ1,75% 4Õ4.(26)
4.Flat dumbbells “flies”10Õ5.
5.Squats “Scissors” 5+5Õ5.

5 day (Friday)
1.Squat 50% 5Õ1,60% 4Õ1,70% 3Õ2,80% 3Õ6.(33)
2.BENCH SHIRT 50% 5X1, 60% 4X1, 70% 3X1, 80% 2X1, SHIRT 100% 3X1, 115% 3X4. It's better to use a low board to have a better tecquinque.
2.Bench press 50% 5Õ1,60% 5Õ1,70% 5Õ5.(40)
3.Flat dumbbells “flies”10Õ5.
4.Dips 8Õ5.
5.”Good mornings” (seating) 5Õ5.
6.Abs 10Õ3.
Total: 73 lifts
Total in a week: 232 lifts
Total in a month: 1093 lifts

After that generally, i do again the 1st week of sheiko #37 (only the first), as a deload week (and i do this only after i saw how DaveBates cycled (i donno the right english word) plan's via mail, thanks) than i do another 4 week cycle. Depend on period.

Summerizing= i use squat suit 3 week from 4. bench shirt depends on times and possibilities. But for sure not more the one x week. Sometimes withing the Wednsday marathon, sometimes on friday.
When using a squat suit could happen we cut a bit number of set.
So squat suit on monday and bench shirt on friday.
Some athlet could use always competiotion MAX, just by putting on knee wraps. If possible is a very good choise far from meet.
Hope my experience is not too boring, forgive my english. Just before new year 3 of my guys reached CMS level in a gym test, so I'm very proud of what we have done. Thanks for this forum. I'll be shorter next time.

[Deleted]

adogruzza
Great post man it is nice to see someone who uses equipment and how they use it with shieko, thanks for the info. Why do you base your shirted bench of your raw max? How often do you use boards or reverse bands, how do you determine that. 'When do you squat with straps up.