Tempo manipulations

[Deleted]

Who here has implemented them? What is considered optimal? King and Poliquin have wrote about Tempo in some detail although it would be interesting to see how to implement into Sheiko workouts (2nd round only I presume).

I always thought for the rate dominant lifter these would be absolute mint (5-10s eccentrics for the 'divebomb' squatter etc).

Has anyone anymore info/share experiences?

[robwhite]

I would not deliberately try and use tempo manipulations for the primary lifts. Trying to count out a tempo in your head whilst squatting, benching, or deadlifting heavy is just too distracting, and TBH if you are lifting heavy you will not be moving the bar mega-fast anyway, no matter how hard you try. Personally i go with just controlling the eccentric ( i tried 'divebombing' once and messed up my elbows / knees on the bench / squat respectively for weeks), and then doing the concentric as fast as possible (a la Compensatory Acceleration Technique).

However, tempo control is quite good for complementary exercises like flyes, dips, and good mornings. I found i built more structural mass (i.e muscle) using tempo control, although i never deliverately slow down the concentric phase - i dont see the point in that.

[Deleted]

Jan 16, 2009 5:49:32 GMT -5 robwhite said:

I would not deliberately try and use tempo manipulations for the primary lifts. Trying to count out a tempo in your head whilst squatting, benching, or deadlifting heavy is just too distracting, and TBH if you are lifting heavy you will not be moving the bar mega-fast anyway, no matter how hard you try. Personally i go with just controlling the eccentric ( i tried 'divebombing' once and messed up my elbows / knees on the bench / squat respectively for weeks), and then doing the concentric as fast as possible (a la Compensatory Acceleration Technique).

However, tempo control is quite good for complementary exercises like flyes, dips, and good mornings. I found i built more structural mass (i.e muscle) using tempo control, although i never deliverately slow down the concentric phase - i dont see the point in that.

Thanks for the reply. I am pretty much the complete opposite (divebomb everything on the squat and everything on TNG is basically dropped and reversed just before it touches the chest) In example;

Recently switched over to Olympic squat (high bar, close stance beltless) tested a 4RM;

170kgx4 (had another 5kg in the tank but left it there)

Then tried out some tempo with the same style squat;

150kgx1 (10s eccentric only, partners lift the bar)
160kgx1 (10s ecc)
170kgx1 (5s ecc)

I would estimate my 1RM at around 190-195 for this exercise yet I doubt I could lower it in 3s with good form? Majority is relying on visco-elasticity/speed out the bottom and hip strength.

In terms of slow concentric's I wasn't particularly brought by them, unless of course the ROM is extremely short and alot of momentum could be used...even then slow concentric's is extremely limiting. Sub-maximal eccentric's have their place for stability, bar control etc in my opinion.

Would be great if Dave of Eric could chime in with their thoughts.

[Deleted]

Sheiko answered in a russian forum at this question something like that:
why you shuold have slow eccentric?
There is no reason to do that. Slow volontary tempo is a bodybuilding system. It is unusfully stressfull for the CNS and unable you to make a perfect lift.
When you train you should do (most of NBL) the same as you were in competition. So a perfect squat is a squat made with the right tempo: that is yours!
If you want to use slow tempo you can use sometimes as a second squat or after 2nd deadlift on wednsday just for metabolic reason with moderate light weight.
And dont forget that poliquin and king have to sell book to their reader (most of them bodybuilders) and that they have never trained a single elite strength athlet in weightlifting or powerlifting.

[Deleted]

Jan 19, 2009 4:33:47 GMT -5 @adogruzza said:

Sheiko answered in a russian forum at this question something like that:
why you shuold have slow eccentric?
There is no reason to do that. Slow volontary tempo is a bodybuilding system. It is unusfully stressfull for the CNS and unable you to make a perfect lift.
When you train you should do (most of NBL) the same as you were in competition. So a perfect squat is a squat made with the right tempo: that is yours!
If you want to use slow tempo you can use sometimes as a second squat or after 2nd deadlift on wednsday just for metabolic reason with moderate light weight.
And dont forget that poliquin and king have to sell book to their reader (most of them bodybuilders) and that they have never trained a single elite strength athlet in weightlifting or powerlifting.

Can you link me towards this?

[Deleted]

it was on the disappeard forum of www.irbisclub.ru. But it is no more on line since a year or so. Sorry

[Deleted]

Jan 19, 2009 17:41:08 GMT -5 @adogruzza said:

it was on the disappeard forum of www.irbisclub.ru. But it is no more on line since a year or so. Sorry

Ok, thanks

[robwhite]

Jan 19, 2009 4:33:47 GMT -5 @adogruzza said:

Sheiko answered in a russian forum at this question something like that:
why you shuold have slow eccentric?
There is no reason to do that. Slow volontary tempo is a bodybuilding system. It is unusfully stressfull for the CNS and unable you to make a perfect lift.
When you train you should do (most of NBL) the same as you were in competition. So a perfect squat is a squat made with the right tempo: that is yours!
If you want to use slow tempo you can use sometimes as a second squat or after 2nd deadlift on wednsday just for metabolic reason with moderate light weight.
And dont forget that poliquin and king have to sell book to their reader (most of them bodybuilders) and that they have never trained a single elite strength athlet in weightlifting or powerlifting.

Very interesting. Thanks for that. I'm sure Poliquin would be a bit gutted by that comment from Sheiko ;D

[Deleted]

Jan 23, 2009 6:45:02 GMT -5 robwhite said:

Very interesting. Thanks for that. I'm sure Poliquin would be a bit gutted by that comment from Sheiko ;D

I doubt it. Poliquin has worked with numerous Olympians, Adam Nelson in particular aside from Speed skaters, long jumpers and the Canadian Bobsleigh team. Adam was Olympic Silver medalist at both 2004 and 2008 I beleive....check out Poliquin's facilities on youtube...pretty incredible.

uk.youtube.com/watch?v=PvgnBi93JyA

Also he works with Pierre Roy, reknown strength coach and they seem to implement such strategies with sucess

uk.youtube.com/watch?v=C2IIFTLdsZk&feature=channel_page

There is research supporting the slow tempo aswell as the speed camp though;

www.sportivnypress.com/documents/75.html

Boris himself has tempo manipulations put up on his variations aswell as Mel Siff in supertraining....I am beginning to think this form of quasi-isometrics is almost overlooked these days due to too much reading of Elitefts...

Either way after using slow tempo squats for a brief 3 week block (5/0/5 tempo primarily) I set a 12.5kg volume PB on my beltless squats (182.5kg for 3 sets of 5) which is enough evidence to me anyway. In one of Charles earlier books
he quotes a few studies indicating that utilizing different tempos for both eccentric and concentric portions of the lift can be beneficial. I'll see if I can find them at uni...

[Deleted]

Brad, Poliquin has not so many elite strength athlet in his client book.
How many elite throwers, shotputter, hammer there are in the world?
We are speaking again and again of Adam Nelson, who was altready a top lifter before been coached by poliquin. Who coach all the others?
We are speaking of strength.
So i'm sure that in the little and poor "irbis club gym" of Ufa there are more strength athlete than i all the rich book of client of Mr Poliquin.

If we are speaking of fashon, good looking, marketing, go with all t-nation "guru". But if you have to go for strength all great NONFAMOUS olympic lifting coach, east powerlifting coach are the man to look like. And this one use very rarely tempo manipulation, because it waste lifting quality. Period.
In our field there are a huge difference between been a FAMOUS strength coach and a great strength coach.
Before Talmant start to speak of Sheiko on elitefts, in america no one knows Boris Sheiko. And it it by far the most winning coach of the History of Powerlifting. Think about it!
Too much VIP training, too few serius and smart analisys of strangth training issue.
But like Boris Sheiko there are many others out there, perhaps better:
Kotthenzhi,Naleiking, Kosarev, Ivanov, Muravyev, and many many other. Let's discover this one, and try to forget t-nation guru for a while.

[Deleted]

Feb 1, 2009 5:04:16 GMT -5 @adogruzza said:

Brad, Poliquin has not so many elite strength athlet in his client book.
How many elite throwers, shotputter, hammer there are in the world?
We are speaking again and again of Adam Nelson, who was altready a top lifter before been coached by poliquin. Who coach all the others?
We are speaking of strength.
So i'm sure that in the little and poor "irbis club gym" of Ufa there are more strength athlete than i all the rich book of client of Mr Poliquin.

If we are speaking of fashon, good looking, marketing, go with all t-nation "guru". But if you have to go for strength all great NONFAMOUS olympic lifting coach, east powerlifting coach are the man to look like. And this one use very rarely tempo manipulation, because it waste lifting quality. Period.
In our field there are a huge difference between been a FAMOUS strength coach and a great strength coach.
Before Talmant start to speak of Sheiko on elitefts, in america no one knows Boris Sheiko. And it it by far the most winning coach of the History of Powerlifting. Think about it!
Too much VIP training, too few serius and smart analisys of strangth training issue.
But like Boris Sheiko there are many others out there, perhaps better:
Kotthenzhi,Naleiking, Kosarev, Ivanov, Muravyev, and many many other. Let's discover this one, and try to forget t-nation guru for a while.

I am merely providing food for thought...if slow tempo is in the literature, it must be of use, even if it is only used during anatomical adaption, hypertrophy phases etc. I was not so quick to overlook it and was rewarded with a 12.5kg pb on my squat in a very short period of time..to me this speaks volumes. No other variables were changed.

I wish I could pull out more literature but I am not at home at the moment, although I'm sure the russians concluded a 3-5s eccentric with a fast concentric elicited the fastest strength gains in elite athletes? I'm sure Eric could correct me if I'm wrong here. Who is to say at different times of the year controlled tempo's aren't applicable?

In the same way that eccentrics and isometrics can be used to work on body position and improve form, I think slow tempo can be used in the same way if to improve nothing else, this alone will provide tremendous benefit for the divebomb lifter.

Bill Starr also mentions the use of 'controlled lifting with deliberate pauses' for use on pulls (aswell as the Olympic lifts)!

I guess the real question is; why does speed win out over all everytime.....why does concentric (which has been shown to recruit the lowest amount of fibres in comparison to isometric and eccentric contractions) recieve the most attention if higher levels of force (which is the largest requisite for our sport) can be acheived via other contractions?

[Deleted]

i understand your point, but let's think about this:
1) russian literature is very different (very much) from russian empirical (practical? dont know the exact english word).
If you look at literature, you should do for maximum strength 6 reps with 85% of 1rm, 4 with 90%, every time to failure. Teorically slow lift improuve strength, practically, no. Or so much. Take a look a Medvedyev (for me the greatest) training plans.

2) one of my athelt improuve 10% his 1rm in deadlift using a 6 week program with weight from 50 to 60% .
This dont mean that this is the right way to increase meet result. Sometimes could happen, but it's very difficult to make a law on it. The same with slow tempo.
3) slow tempo could be a way to work, but just sometimes, and not as a main strategy.
4)Take a look at result: all the lifting yodas (gym nerds) the we all know manipulate tempo just because king and poliquin say it. How many of them are strong lifter? Go in a gym where people train in olympic lifting or use distribuite load method (as sheiko is): You'll get tired to see kgs on the bar.
5) controlled lifting is a not tempo manipulation. Poliquin speaks of 5 second eccentric (!!!!!!!!!) for strength training.

I think this is my answer to the real question:
it is not so important how much is the recruiment of MU in the eccentric compare to concentric. the problem is: HOW IS OUR SPORT?
in squat you need to go down with about 85% (tha't's the eccentric effort for a 100% lift) end go up with 100%. People need to learn the corret recruimente for the specificity of powerlifting. Overload eccentric could help, as could many other things, but the first thing of sheiko training is: specificity of squat, bench press and deadlift.

I'm sorry if my answer seems unkind or unpolite but i cant speak and write a good english, so sometimes i could write not the same as i'm thinking in my mind.

[Deleted]

Feb 1, 2009 15:44:53 GMT -5 @adogruzza said:

i understand your point, but let's think about this:
1) russian literature is very different (very much) from russian empirical (practical? dont know the exact english word).
If you look at literature, you should do for maximum strength 6 reps with 85% of 1rm, 4 with 90%, every time to failure. Teorically slow lift improuve strength, practically, no. Or so much. Take a look a Medvedyev (for me the greatest) training plans.

2) one of my athelt improuve 10% his 1rm in deadlift using a 6 week program with weight from 50 to 60% .
This dont mean that this is the right way to increase meet result. Sometimes could happen, but it's very difficult to make a law on it. The same with slow tempo.
3) slow tempo could be a way to work, but just sometimes, and not as a main strategy.
4)Take a look at result: all the lifting yodas (gym nerds) the we all know manipulate tempo just because king and poliquin say it. How many of them are strong lifter? Go in a gym where people train in olympic lifting or use distribuite load method (as sheiko is): You'll get tired to see kgs on the bar.
5) controlled lifting is a not tempo manipulation. Poliquin speaks of 5 second eccentric (!!!!!!!!!) for strength training.

I think this is my answer to the real question:
it is not so important how much is the recruiment of MU in the eccentric compare to concentric. the problem is: HOW IS OUR SPORT?
in squat you need to go down with about 85% (tha't's the eccentric effort for a 100% lift) end go up with 100%. People need to learn the corret recruimente for the specificity of powerlifting. Overload eccentric could help, as could many other things, but the first thing of sheiko training is: specificity of squat, bench press and deadlift.

I'm sorry if my answer seems unkind or unpolite but i cant speak and write a good english, so sometimes i could write not the same as i'm thinking in my mind.

No, this is exactly why I come on this forum to have intelligent debates

I agree with the 5 main points, however I feel this specificity over the individual is the problem. Surely all training should address the individual weaknesses of said athlete rather than the specificity of the sport! This from a health and muscle balance point of view. If sports specificity was the only thing that mattered we could do competition like training every session and make gains but obviously this is not so.

In terms of 5 second eccentric, I have found them useful. I am a fan of Time under Tension, and if I use Tempo I have been using them with a total time frame of less than 20 seconds (i.e. 10/3/* for bar control with heavy weights and elimination of stretch reflex or 10/0/10 for distributing equal tension to all ranges of movement in the lift). Keep in mind 70% of tempo's I am advocating are singles...the rest 2-3 reps on occasions.

This allows for focus on the higher threshold motor units (I have yet to use less than 75% of 1rm on any exercise) and good form.

If you look at the Sportivnypress link it concludes a moderate speed of lifting is best, however slow lifting (6 seconds per repetition) is not far behind in terms of kg's gained!

Obviously this is not the holy grail of lifting, merely something to implement during a accumulation block to increase muscular work and relieve some strain on the Nervous System.

Shortly I will return to Sheiko (22nd of this month) and will apply a moderate tempo for lifting (controlled eccentric and not pushing more than I need to for the concentric) and report back with gains. Perhaps one day out of the four applying maximal speed for maintainance?

Previously I have applied max speed to the bar for all Sheiko sets (all outlined percents) and gained fairly well (recently just missed 665lb deadlift at lockout @ 198lbs in IPF competition and squatted 445lbs for sets of 3 (both no equipment)).

It is my goal to lift 685lbs in the deadlift this year so I will try and not do anything to limit my gains

[davebates]

Feb 1, 2009 16:41:23 GMT -5 @bradcutler said:

Feb 1, 2009 15:44:53 GMT -5 @adogruzza said:

i understand your point, but let's think about this:
1) russian literature is very different (very much) from russian empirical (practical? dont know the exact english word).
If you look at literature, you should do for maximum strength 6 reps with 85% of 1rm, 4 with 90%, every time to failure. Teorically slow lift improuve strength, practically, no. Or so much. Take a look a Medvedyev (for me the greatest) training plans.

2) one of my athelt improuve 10% his 1rm in deadlift using a 6 week program with weight from 50 to 60% .
This dont mean that this is the right way to increase meet result. Sometimes could happen, but it's very difficult to make a law on it. The same with slow tempo.
3) slow tempo could be a way to work, but just sometimes, and not as a main strategy.
4)Take a look at result: all the lifting yodas (gym nerds) the we all know manipulate tempo just because king and poliquin say it. How many of them are strong lifter? Go in a gym where people train in olympic lifting or use distribuite load method (as sheiko is): You'll get tired to see kgs on the bar.
5) controlled lifting is a not tempo manipulation. Poliquin speaks of 5 second eccentric (!!!!!!!!!) for strength training.

I think this is my answer to the real question:
it is not so important how much is the recruiment of MU in the eccentric compare to concentric. the problem is: HOW IS OUR SPORT?
in squat you need to go down with about 85% (tha't's the eccentric effort for a 100% lift) end go up with 100%. People need to learn the corret recruimente for the specificity of powerlifting. Overload eccentric could help, as could many other things, but the first thing of sheiko training is: specificity of squat, bench press and deadlift.

I'm sorry if my answer seems unkind or unpolite but i cant speak and write a good english, so sometimes i could write not the same as i'm thinking in my mind.

No, this is exactly why I come on this forum to have intelligent debates

I agree with the 5 main points, however I feel this specificity over the individual is the problem. Surely all training should address the individual weaknesses of said athlete rather than the specificity of the sport! This from a health and muscle balance point of view. If sports specificity was the only thing that mattered we could do competition like training every session and make gains but obviously this is not so.

In terms of 5 second eccentric, I have found them useful. I am a fan of Time under Tension, and if I use Tempo I have been using them with a total time frame of less than 20 seconds (i.e. 10/3/* for bar control with heavy weights and elimination of stretch reflex or 10/0/10 for distributing equal tension to all ranges of movement in the lift). Keep in mind 70% of tempo's I am advocating are singles...the rest 2-3 reps on occasions.

This allows for focus on the higher threshold motor units (I have yet to use less than 75% of 1rm on any exercise) and good form.

If you look at the Sportivnypress link it concludes a moderate speed of lifting is best, however slow lifting (6 seconds per repetition) is not far behind in terms of kg's gained!

Obviously this is not the holy grail of lifting, merely something to implement during a accumulation block to increase muscular work and relieve some strain on the Nervous System.

Shortly I will return to Sheiko (22nd of this month) and will apply a moderate tempo for lifting (controlled eccentric and not pushing more than I need to for the concentric) and report back with gains. Perhaps one day out of the four applying maximal speed for maintainance?

Previously I have applied max speed to the bar for all Sheiko sets (all outlined percents) and gained fairly well (recently just missed 665lb deadlift at lockout @ 198lbs in IPF competition and squatted 445lbs for sets of 3 (both no equipment)).

It is my goal to lift 685lbs in the deadlift this year so I will try and not do anything to limit my gains

This is exactly what I had in mind for this forum. Exploring new ideas and finding out what works and what may not. Let me know how it goes...

[Deleted]

yes, let me know too what's your results and, above all, feelings.

[erictalmant]

Isometric and quasi-isometric exercises (tempo manipulations) have the advantage of being able to *possibly* direct the influence of the involved muscle group at certain (perhaps lacking) joint angles. Maximum force at a necessary joint angle can sometimes only be displayed at a fraction of a second which makes it nearly impossible to train in some exercises. With tempo manipulation one can sometimes train certain joint angles that are needed to display maximum effort.

However, take into account that neuromuscular regulation during tempo manipulated exercises is different from just doing the movement at a "regular" tempo. A large volume of tempo training *can* fatigue the nervous system, decrease coordination, etc.

Nevertheless, it does have a positive affect on ligaments, joints, tendons, and the skeletal structure.

In my opinion they are best used in small quantity (10% or so of the work for that particular discipline) and are best employed by higher qualified athletes.

So, to me based on what Brad described about how he squats and executes the lifts it is no surprise that a bit of tempo manipluation worked for him for 3 weeks.

What I would be interested to see, though, is if his newfound strength for reps translated over into maximal strength in the 90%+ range.

Can you add anything, Brad?

I would also be curious to see if he gained some mass on his legs and other places, which could also contribute indirectly to some of the strength gain.

-Eric

[Deleted]

Feb 12, 2009 13:27:32 GMT -5 erictalmant said:

Isometric and quasi-isometric exercises (tempo manipulations) have the advantage of being able to *possibly* direct the influence of the involved muscle group at certain (perhaps lacking) joint angles. Maximum force at a necessary joint angle can sometimes only be displayed at a fraction of a second which makes it nearly impossible to train in some exercises. With tempo manipulation one can sometimes train certain joint angles that are needed to display maximum effort.

However, take into account that neuromuscular regulation during tempo manipulated exercises is different from just doing the movement at a "regular" tempo. A large volume of tempo training *can* fatigue the nervous system, decrease coordination, etc.

Nevertheless, it does have a positive affect on ligaments, joints, tendons, and the skeletal structure.

In my opinion they are best used in small quantity (10% or so of the work for that particular discipline) and are best employed by higher qualified athletes.

So, to me based on what Brad described about how he squats and executes the lifts it is no surprise that a bit of tempo manipluation worked for him for 3 weeks.

What I would be interested to see, though, is if his newfound strength for reps translated over into maximal strength in the 90%+ range.

Can you add anything, Brad?

I would also be curious to see if he gained some mass on his legs and other places, which could also contribute indirectly to some of the strength gain.

-Eric

Yes! Thanks for the reply Eric, much appreciated


Yes, a few things have happened in the past few weeks;

1) I have gained a ridiculous amount of mass (bodyweight has jumped up 3-4kg) but I was 186cm ~ 6'1 in the 198lbs class. I'm currently not restricting food as I'm working my way up to 242lbs. Before I was specifically dieting so this must be taken into account. Also I have never previously followed any form of bodybuilder type methods (slow tempo, high sets/reps with short rest periods etc).

2) My bar control has gone through the roof, stability, eccentric control with max weights is far superior.

3) All assistance I have applied this to have jumped over 10% (yes 10) in a few weeks with little overall work percentage wise. Pulldowns which have been stuck at 85kgx8 for over 6 months have moved to an easy 95kgx9 in 3 sessions (2 weeks). Ditto for militaries, dips etc.

4) As you mention Eric specific joint angles within each lift were possibly lacking due to my speed (stretch reflex/momentum pushing me through certain ROM's meaning they recieved little work) doing slow work has allowed me to equal the TTUT out and as a result become stronger overall....

Perhaps almost ironing out the strength curve (if that makes any sense?)

5) I haven't applied this extensively to my squat/bench/deadlift as I was reluctant too (for obvious reasons if it were pear shaped) but from what I have done I have gained well.

In terms of 1 rm results, I already exceeded my previous db military press by 7% for 2 reps within 2 quasi-isometric only sessions. However I am not a strong presser by any means and coming from a speed/plyometric background (football, basketball) I guess I rely on the stretch reflex more than most.

One thing that I have particularly been happy with is the use of my high bar beltless turnover to my low bar beltless. I used quasi-isometrics for 3 sessions after my main work and recently did 7 sets of 3 @ 190kg beltless (95% of previous best)!!!! I will test 1rm in the following sessions.

6) I have performed extensive slow lifting on both portions of the lift. This has almost 'taught' me how to grind it seems. This has indicated to me I should do atleast 1 session in my next CMS cycle where I try to control the weight and lift it with minimal effort (rather than blasting and using the stretch reflex/lots of momentum) in an attempt to spend an equal amount of time in all ROM's.

In conclusion regardless of the short duration spend on this method I am positive quasi-isometrics is a GREAT way to build strength. I have followed some of Poliquin's reccomendations as I am trying to gain mass (so I kept all sets within the 20-40 seconds bracket) and usually tried to use the least amount of reps possible (1-3) in an attempt to use the largest weight possible. Completely controlling the weight on both portions of the lift.

As this trial has gone particularly well I am looking forward to implementing it to my main competition lifts and seeing what happens. Looking forward to performing Sheiko in a similar manner (albeit slightly modified) and will detail a 4 week log if the site permits it (?).

[Deleted]

Another update;


Previous raw comp PB on the squat was 210kg, last workout (with no peaking or tapering) I pulled up 270kg (missed 2nd rep due to the first deadlift workout in almost 3 months) then squatted (belt only);

205kgx2 (PB)
210kgx2 (PB)
215kgx2 (PB)
222.5kgx1 (PB)
227.5kg (3/4 way up but stalled, quads/lockout is still weak)

Pretty impressed with the results, espeically considering the pathetic weights I'm using for the slow lifting, definitely on to something here even if it is only useable for short periods as Eric said....

[benburgess]

Feb 15, 2009 10:31:26 GMT -5 @bradcutler said:

Another update;


Previous raw comp PB on the squat was 210kg, last workout (with no peaking or tapering) I pulled up 270kg (missed 2nd rep due to the first deadlift workout in almost 3 months) then squatted (belt only);

205kgx2 (PB)
210kgx2 (PB)
215kgx2 (PB)
222.5kgx1 (PB)
227.5kg (3/4 way up but stalled, quads/lockout is still weak)

Pretty impressed with the results, espeically considering the pathetic weights I'm using for the slow lifting, definitely on to something here even if it is only useable for short periods as Eric said....

Nice one Brad I might pick your brainz more about this after my current training cycle.

[Deleted]

Feb 16, 2009 13:48:04 GMT -5 benburgess said:

Feb 15, 2009 10:31:26 GMT -5 @bradcutler said:

Another update;


Previous raw comp PB on the squat was 210kg, last workout (with no peaking or tapering) I pulled up 270kg (missed 2nd rep due to the first deadlift workout in almost 3 months) then squatted (belt only);

205kgx2 (PB)
210kgx2 (PB)
215kgx2 (PB)
222.5kgx1 (PB)
227.5kg (3/4 way up but stalled, quads/lockout is still weak)

Pretty impressed with the results, espeically considering the pathetic weights I'm using for the slow lifting, definitely on to something here even if it is only useable for short periods as Eric said....

Nice one Brad I might pick your brainz more about this after my current training cycle.

No worries bud, my MSN is on FI.

Some what related.....

Another interesting point Eric made (10% of overall training volume, albiet for higher level athletes) means basically a whole 4 week Sheiko block a year could be implemented towards this form of training (if such a deficit warranted it) possibly as a form of recuperation/hypertrophy block?

Sheiko implements the use of drugs to achieve MS or MSIC level so for the drug free athlete such variations in movement could be implemented to the same standard (10%) at CMS?

I am almost tempted to run my next Sheiko block in a concurrent style. i.e.

Monday S/B/S ~ controlled cadence
Wednesday D/B/D ~ fast cadence
Friday B/S/B ~ controlled cadence
Saturday D/assistance/D ~ fast cadence

From there periodise the tempos so alternating weekly within the 4 week cycle....thus possibly limiting the need for more SPP
exercises (perfecting the competition movements via various tempo manipulations rather than doing some obscure closely related movement i.e. close grip inclines)

Any thoughts are welcome.