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Post by Deleted on Dec 25, 2008 10:47:24 GMT -5
Speaking to Eric on Fortified-iron.com he mentioned no more than 110% should be used for reverse bands. Does anyone know why? Im sure Eric will chime in when he gets the chance  |
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Post by davebates on Dec 26, 2008 1:15:38 GMT -5
Speaking to Eric on Fortified-iron.com he mentioned no more than 110% should be used for reverse bands. Does anyone know why? Im sure Eric will chime in when he gets the chance A great deal depends on the set up and the strength of the bands you are using. What do you have in mind, give us an example. Bar weight, bands etc... |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2008 4:47:20 GMT -5
Speaking to Eric on Fortified-iron.com he mentioned no more than 110% should be used for reverse bands. Does anyone know why? Im sure Eric will chime in when he gets the chance A great deal depends on the set up and the strength of the bands you are using. What do you have in mind, give us an example. Bar weight, bands etc...I think Eric was saying not to use too high a level of band tension for some reason or not. Personally I do not use them but I have training partners who do so it would be useful to know (for a raw lifter espeically) |
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Post by erictalmant on Dec 26, 2008 9:58:04 GMT -5
Stimulation beyond 110% is "generally" the point at which one can begin to experience the law of diminishing returns. Of course, just like anything else there are individual cases; but (for example) if someone is using 120% then the impact that has on the nervous system as opposed to if they would have just used 110% is apparently a big deal and in most cases not even necessary. Finally, form is usually compromised too much with weights that exceed 110% and so now we are negating that which we set out to accomplish as well as you are now opening yourself up to a higher incidence of injury.
Does this make sense?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2008 3:46:04 GMT -5
Stimulation beyond 110% is "generally" the point at which one can begin to experience the law of diminishing returns. Of course, just like anything else there are individual cases; but (for example) if someone is using 120% then the impact that has on the nervous system as opposed to if they would have just used 110% is apparently a big deal and in most cases not even necessary. Finally, form is usually compromised too much with weights that exceed 110% and so now we are negating that which we set out to accomplish as well as you are now opening yourself up to a higher incidence of injury. Does this make sense? Definitely Occasionally I have trained partial squats (dead stop from pins) to improve the lockout and stability/set up so I will take it this applies to to this too.  |
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Post by erictalmant on Dec 27, 2008 12:58:40 GMT -5
Stimulation beyond 110% is "generally" the point at which one can begin to experience the law of diminishing returns. Of course, just like anything else there are individual cases; but (for example) if someone is using 120% then the impact that has on the nervous system as opposed to if they would have just used 110% is apparently a big deal and in most cases not even necessary. Finally, form is usually compromised too much with weights that exceed 110% and so now we are negating that which we set out to accomplish as well as you are now opening yourself up to a higher incidence of injury. Does this make sense? Definitely Occasionally I have trained partial squats (dead stop from pins) to improve the lockout and stability/set up so I will take it this applies to to this too. Yes-it does. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2008 14:30:43 GMT -5
Definitely Occasionally I have trained partial squats (dead stop from pins) to improve the lockout and stability/set up so I will take it this applies to to this too. Yes-it does. Eric on that note - what are your thoughts on implementing progressive angle resistance in to Sheiko? For instance, I have an extremely weak lockout, I can get anything out of the hole and past parallel but past that i hit a brick wall. This may be due to having long legs and being a light 90kg (6'1)  What would you think of using a second round of squats from pins (maybe at sticking point initially ~ 10" from lockout) and progressively lowering the pin 1" each week using the squat 1RM? I ask merely as I have never really been a fan of anything but bar weight. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2008 7:42:04 GMT -5
I am going to agree with Eric here, 110% should be the limit, but both reasons he stated. The cns can only take so much, anything above this and the return from this might be a few steps back, the 2nd is form. The band used for anything above 110% will really take over your form, if that's the case all training has gone to crap then.
110% is still quite a bit high, for example, my best competition squat is 843, this last training cycle I have taken my heaviest reverse band squat at 885. hardly anything close to the max of 110%.
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Post by erictalmant on Dec 28, 2008 9:22:08 GMT -5
I am going to agree with Eric here, 110% should be the limit, but both reasons he stated. The cns can only take so much, anything above this and the return from this might be a few steps back, the 2nd is form. The band used for anything above 110% will really take over your form, if that's the case all training has gone to crap then. 110% is still quite a bit high, for example, my best competition squat is 843, this last training cycle I have taken my heaviest reverse band squat at 885. hardly anything close to the max of 110%. I thought this might be you, Al. Thanks for crusing by and adding your input. It is much appreciated! |
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Post by erictalmant on Dec 28, 2008 9:40:12 GMT -5
Eric on that note - what are your thoughts on implementing progressive angle resistance in to Sheiko? For instance, I have an extremely weak lockout, I can get anything out of the hole and past parallel but past that i hit a brick wall. This may be due to having long legs and being a light 90kg (6'1) What would you think of using a second round of squats from pins (maybe at sticking point initially ~ 10" from lockout) and progressively lowering the pin 1" each week using the squat 1RM? I ask merely as I have never really been a fan of anything but bar weight. I think that your logic is sound and "on paper" it is good enough to try out and see what happens. I am going to share a rare gem with you here. I believe that Louie Simmons *perhaps* misinterpreted the way that the Russians addressed one's mini max by accommodating resistance. Truth be told, the Russian weightlifters actually experienced great results by immediately loading that joint angle where one is weak with an additional load in a much different way than bands and chains. We tried this out on Dave in a bit of a crude way some time ago and it worked very well for him. First, we measured with the advanced Tendo the EXACT point where his strength curve slowed down; the exact point. So, we knew exactly how many inches off his chest was his "mini max". We then set it up to where weight immediately loaded onto the bar one inch below his mini max when he would bench press and it really strengthened him at that point. Perhaps Dave can jump in and elaborate on this more. However, the point of my post is that I believe that your idea is valid and you should perhaps give it a try to see how you respond. You can also at some point try to accommodate resistance in the manner I described above to see if it might address this for you as well. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2008 13:26:49 GMT -5
I am going to agree with Eric here, 110% should be the limit, but both reasons he stated. The cns can only take so much, anything above this and the return from this might be a few steps back, the 2nd is form. The band used for anything above 110% will really take over your form, if that's the case all training has gone to crap then. 110% is still quite a bit high, for example, my best competition squat is 843, this last training cycle I have taken my heaviest reverse band squat at 885. hardly anything close to the max of 110%. I thought this might be you, Al. Thanks for crusing by and adding your input. It is much appreciated! Not a problem Eric.. someone sent me a link to this forum. I think it's a great idea. Check out powerliftingwatch.com.... I have no idea how, or what happened, but I am suddenly the worst lifter in multi ply. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2008 14:06:27 GMT -5
Eric on that note - what are your thoughts on implementing progressive angle resistance in to Sheiko? For instance, I have an extremely weak lockout, I can get anything out of the hole and past parallel but past that i hit a brick wall. This may be due to having long legs and being a light 90kg (6'1) What would you think of using a second round of squats from pins (maybe at sticking point initially ~ 10" from lockout) and progressively lowering the pin 1" each week using the squat 1RM? I ask merely as I have never really been a fan of anything but bar weight. I think that your logic is sound and "on paper" it is good enough to try out and see what happens. I am going to share a rare gem with you here. I believe that Louie Simmons *perhaps* misinterpreted the way that the Russians addressed one's mini max by accommodating resistance. Truth be told, the Russian weightlifters actually experienced great results by immediately loading that joint angle where one is weak with an additional load in a much different way than bands and chains. We tried this out on Dave in a bit of a crude way some time ago and it worked very well for him. First, we measured with the advanced Tendo the EXACT point where his strength curve slowed down; the exact point. So, we knew exactly how many inches off his chest was his "mini max". We then set it up to where weight immediately loaded onto the bar one inch below his mini max when he would bench press and it really strengthened him at that point. Perhaps Dave can jump in and elaborate on this more. However, the point of my post is that I believe that your idea is valid and you should perhaps give it a try to see how you respond. You can also at some point try to accommodate resistance in the manner I described above to see if it might address this for you as well. Very interesting stuff. Is there anywhere you can point me to read more? Personally, the way I looked at the progressive angle is; if you can squat your max from a dead stop off pins, then all other factors being equal you shouldn't have a problem with locking it in competition (when you factor in, momentum, visco elasticity etc that will usually carry the bar through this point). However, there is obviously the problem of handling 100% (or in excess of if you train Paul Anderson style) which would obviously be pushing the boundaries for the CNS. A safer way of overloading would come via implementing Sheiko with it (Im not currently doing Sheiko due to time restrictions, last year at university). My thoughts would be to use this 110% number as a limit and the increase the ROM 1" each week on Sheiko on the second round. Is progressive resistance too crude a way of implementing this? (Considering the rest of the program is periodized and lifting 110% off a 12" pin may be 85% of limit strength where as lifting off a 9" pin may be 120% ~ if that makes any sense as the strength curve could differ immensely). As a reference point I have squatted 190kg from certain pins when my full range max was 215kg! Yet at levels *slightly* higher I can do in surplus of 225kg. Any thoughts to this would be interesting. I am implementing one max effort session a week right now (my only session a week) right now and once I hit 15kg more than my max off a pin I move down to the next. Been progressing very well so far but expecting to burn out as im basically living off singles.... |
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