Failure on week 32

[joeldibattista]

Kiwi, quite a few have found the same thing. Ben thinks we are coming in underdone. I'm wondering if a week less of deloading would work well...

There is only one way to find out.

[Deleted]

Hey Joel, I have been doing RV 12 weeker for 20 months now and I have changed intensities and added sets to up volume a touch but only up to week 8.
On skills I would smoke 95% lifts and find week 10 onwards I would go back wards.
On comp days I would repeat the skills weights but find them grinders.
I am going to do 8 weeks and instead of skills, do a comp.
It could be that there is too much deload in #32.
Cheers D.

[Deleted]

Hey there Kiwi, how long is a training session talking you to complete? Are you using the shirt and suit on the same day of the week? Cheers

[Deleted]

Sorry mate that should be taking you!

[Deleted]

Tommy, If I use a bench shirt I move it to Wednesday and do Wednesday bench on Monday.

If I dont use shirt, I keep it on Monday but add chain so the total weight at lockout equals shirted weight.
Normally takes 1hr 45 to complete workouts, sometimes 2 hours.
I do flys etc super setted with barbell curls or stiff leg deadlifts etc to save time.

[Deleted]

Thanks for your reply kiwi. I did a couple of sheiko cycles last year and got good gains with my bench, felt like my squat was moving well too but my knees started to get really sore with the volume, was doing #37. Is that something you have experienced? Maybe i need to harden up and work through it? Cheers.

[benburgess]

Aug 12, 2011 1:59:47 GMT -5 @kiwipowah said:

Hey Joel, I have been doing RV 12 weeker for 20 months now and I have changed intensities and added sets to up volume a touch but only up to week 8.
On skills I would smoke 95% lifts and find week 10 onwards I would go back wards.
On comp days I would repeat the skills weights but find them grinders.
I am going to do 8 weeks and instead of skills, do a comp.
It could be that there is too much deload in #32.
Cheers D.

i dont use the #32 anymore really, partly for this reason. I take my heavy sq (~95%) about 14 days out, heavy pull about 16 days out and bench about 12 days out (i.e. all in the week before the penultimate wk). I dont do a skills test, just work up to these 95% weights on their normal training days (DL friday, Sq sunday, bench monday).

Then penultimate wk i take 85% singles on all 3 on their normal training days. Meet wk i just do speed work really. Even still i feel like i am bringin my bench in underdone really.

[Deleted]

Aug 12, 2011 9:12:02 GMT -5 benburgess said:

Aug 12, 2011 1:59:47 GMT -5 @kiwipowah said:

Hey Joel, I have been doing RV 12 weeker for 20 months now and I have changed intensities and added sets to up volume a touch but only up to week 8.
On skills I would smoke 95% lifts and find week 10 onwards I would go back wards.
On comp days I would repeat the skills weights but find them grinders.
I am going to do 8 weeks and instead of skills, do a comp.
It could be that there is too much deload in #32.
Cheers D.

i dont use the #32 anymore really, partly for this reason. I take my heavy sq (~95%) about 14 days out, heavy pull about 16 days out and bench about 12 days out (i.e. all in the week before the penultimate wk). I dont do a skills test, just work up to these 95% weights on their normal training days (DL friday, Sq sunday, bench monday).

Then penultimate wk i take 85% singles on all 3 on their normal training days. Meet wk i just do speed work really. Even still i feel like i am bringin my bench in underdone really.

Ben
I find after skills, my body is fine and I could do the same the next day.
How'ever after a comp I have doms etc so I must be detrained.

So in your cycle break down , do you do week 10 etc as written in #32.
Cheers D

[Deleted]

Aug 12, 2011 4:24:28 GMT -5 @tommy said:

Thanks for your reply kiwi. I did a couple of sheiko cycles last year and got good gains with my bench, felt like my squat was moving well too but my knees started to get really sore with the volume, was doing #37. Is that something you have experienced? Maybe i need to harden up and work through it? Cheers.

Tommy

I don't get sore knees but have to foam roller and stretch heaps as I get sore IT bands from all the squatting and sumo DL.
As well as the extra curls etc, I do weighted dips instead of 5x6 of board work. I do barbell bent rows and high rep shrugs. I personally think the template as written is excellent but my rating is higher but I think CMS/MS would be too much for a 'natural' lifter with a job and family (Life).

[benburgess]

Aug 12, 2011 17:10:23 GMT -5 @kiwipowah said:

Aug 12, 2011 9:12:02 GMT -5 benburgess said:

i dont use the #32 anymore really, partly for this reason. I take my heavy sq (~95%) about 14 days out, heavy pull about 16 days out and bench about 12 days out (i.e. all in the week before the penultimate wk). I dont do a skills test, just work up to these 95% weights on their normal training days (DL friday, Sq sunday, bench monday).

Then penultimate wk i take 85% singles on all 3 on their normal training days. Meet wk i just do speed work really. Even still i feel like i am bringin my bench in underdone really.

Ben
I find after skills, my body is fine and I could do the same the next day.
How'ever after a comp I have doms etc so I must be detrained.

So in your cycle break down , do you do week 10 etc as written in #32.
Cheers D

Here's the last 4 wks of my last build-up:

Wk 4
Day 1 - 4: CMS Comp Cycle (as written)

Wk 3
Day 1 - CMS Comp Cycle (as written)
Day 2 - CMS Comp Cycle (as written)
Day 3 - work up to 2-3 DL singles at 90% + (usually 90,92,95%)
Day 4 - work up to 2-3 Sq singles at 90% + (usually 90,92,95%)

Wk 2
Day 1 - work up to 2-3 bench singles at 90% + (usually 90,92,95%)
Day 2 - CMS Comp Cycle (as written)
Day 3 - 2 DL singles at 80-85%
Day 4 - 2 Sq & bench singles at 80-85%

Wk 1
Day 1 - DE DL & DE bench (doubles or singles at around 70%)
Day 2 - DE Sq & DE bench (doubles or singles at around 70%)
Day 3 - MEET

As i said, even with this setup which has the heavier work nearer the meet and includes more intensity than usually prescribed, i am finding the bench is still a bit undercooked. For me personally, this is working perfectly for sq and DL. Bear in mind that i play a lot of it by ear depending on how i am feeling including volume of assistance work.

[Deleted]

^Cheers Ben.
I know I should be on a cms/ms template but I only have 3 days available and I feel 3 days is still suitable to make gains if the cycle elements are appropriate.

I think your method of doing the 95% work in the 2nd to last week has merits that I will try.

Have you ever done 8 weeks only and done a comp?

Do you find 12 weeks ( with the changes you mentioned) preferential?

Stay strong

Cheers Dave.

[benburgess]

Aug 13, 2011 18:26:51 GMT -5 @kiwipowah said:

^Cheers Ben.
1. I know I should be on a cms/ms template but I only have 3 days available and I feel 3 days is still suitable to make gains if the cycle elements are appropriate.

2. I think your method of doing the 95% work in the 2nd to last week has merits that I will try.

3. Have you ever done 8 weeks only and done a comp?

4. Do you find 12 weeks ( with the changes you mentioned) preferential?

Stay strong

Cheers Dave.

1. Yeah whatever, if you are making gains then you are on the right cycle. Ive had good progress off rated lifter and CMS cycles.

2. Dont forget i am doing all the 'other' stuff those days too - not just the 95% single on the comp lift, also i'll do the benching (on the sq/DL single days) and the SPP/GPP.

3. Er, yeah probably! I did a really sucessful cycle last year i think it was with only about 6 wks of 'proper' training. Id just set up a 8wk cycle totally differently (i.e. i definately wouldnt do #37-#32)

4. Whatever really, i have found i can go up to like 16wks without really needing the deloading element of the peaking cycle, but like i say, ive also had sucessful shorter cycles too. I just try and scale up/down the overall intensity based on how long the cycle is and what my recovery/restoration is likely to be.

Personally, based on the number of comps i do per year (about 3 or 4) and the overall 'feel' of the cycle length, anything around 12wks seems about right, but i usually just adjust it based on the time to the next meet. I dont think a couple of wks either way makes a huge difference. If its more than a couple of wks eiher way i scale the intensity up/down a bit.