Struggling.... (Comp result update)

[Deleted]

I've just started the 12 week reduced vol equip cycle to lead up to state titles in April. I'm in week 3 of the program and I'm struggling with the equipped lifts already. Last week I only managed 2 of the 4 doubles I was supposed to do in the squat, the bench was a no go and my raw deadlift was so bad I didn't even suit up....

Some background: After competing in November I did my first sheiko, #29 - raw which I found quite easy. I did a quick skills assessment at the end - squat was up, bench and deadlift down but I wasn't too concerned after only 4 weeks. After Xmas I had 3 weeks off training to let some injuries heal and then started the 12 week cycle, last week I started getting flu symptoms - this happens to me whenever I take a break from training and jump straight back into a full training cycle.

Add to this that I mostly train alone, the group I train with once a week do periodization so I am the black sheep right now, but I need to maintain alliance with some PA/IPF lifters or I have no-one to help me at comps.

My dilemma is this: do I adjust the suited max's down and possibly not hit any PB's for the comp? do I persevere with the current no's even if I cant complete the prescribed sets? Or do I throw my hands up and go back to westside training / periodization.

Feel free to tell me to HTFU. Its really not like me to lack drive, so I don't know whats going wrong right now. However constructive criticism will be greatly welcomed :-)

[spsfw]

week 3 is supposed to be tough. This is one of the things so many people struggle with- the fact that the program is designed to build fatigue- so things actually get harder. I know of plenty of people who pull the plug as soon as fatigue sets in, but in fact this is where the strength is being build. There is an important distinction between building strength and feeling strong. The feeling of strength follows the deload- it happens on the platform, not so much in the gym.
If you are feeling it is too much- i.e. you think you might miss a lift this is ok. Sheiko himself has said this happens occasionally. In this situation its ok to either stick with the set % and drop the sets or reps- or alternatively you can drop the % by 5-10% and stick with the set reps/sets.
It is tough and it will get easier.
I know the first few times through for me were tough, but I have now done 18 months worth and I have never missed a lift on training. I think once or twice in the first cycle I dropped a set or two off, but I always followed the set %.
On the 12week program things get hard (in terms of fatigue) in weeks 3 and 4, 7 and 8. You'll notice the volume builds from 1-3 and then drops off and builds again to week 7, whereas the intensity is highest in weeks 4 and 8. Its all part of the evil plan.
So- to reiterate- I think most people feel pretty beat up in weeks 3,4, 7, 8- even 10 and 11. This is how it is supposed to be.

[benburgess]

Great post Stevo.

I would add to that that it sounds like you based the program off maxes you weren't actually capable of when you started it - if you had 3 wks off you are bound to have detrained somewhat, right?

So trying to hit ~80% of your best EVER lifts a couple of weeks after a long layoff is bound to be a big ask.

[Deleted]

The suited maxes I used were from my November comp, probably a bit ambitious given the layoff but also mindful that at the end of this 12 weeks I have meet and another meet 4 weeks after that!

Last night I actually 'got thru' day 1 of week 3 the only miss was the suited squats where I got the 4 double but was supposed to be 4 triples, so I managed to keep the % and the sets but dropped the reps by 1.

Steve had warned me previously about how sheiko can beat you up a bit :-) but I found #29 raw was so easy that only this time has it really hit me!

Thanks for the support guys.

[Deleted]

Hey Vicki

Steven pretty much summed things up. Dont think you are the only one to experience this mate.
Im on week 8 RAW and even raw im bloody feeling it. I know what to expect now its my 4th cycle, you feel so beaten up, weak,fatigued, sick. Just when it all seems too much as if by magic the volume and intensity drops and then after the delaod you think wow im not prepared for this comp. You warmup and your opener feels so easy and you go on to hit PRs.
In equipment its even harder on those fatigued weeks.. But you can do it..

Works a treat. You need some faith to see that light at the end of the tunnel to keep going, believe me that light is there. Dont give up Rome wasnt built in a day...

I like Steves analogy of the difference between building stregnth and feeling strong. For sheiko this rings very true.

Keep it up mate itll get easier (then harder again and so on lol) then PRs will follow

[davebates]

Feb 1, 2010 18:40:31 GMT -5 @deadliftdiva said:

I've just started the 12 week reduced vol equip cycle to lead up to state titles in April. I'm in week 3 of the program and I'm struggling with the equipped lifts already.
My first thought would be, are you working off accurate maxes?

Last week I only managed 2 of the 4 doubles I was supposed to do in the squat, the bench was a no go and my raw deadlift was so bad I didn't even suit up....
It's a good call, if your not conditioned, you will not recover in time. The idea here is to take you the the very edge of over training then bring you back.

Some background: After competing in November I did my first sheiko, #29 - raw which I found quite easy. I did a quick skills assessment at the end - squat was up, bench and deadlift down but I wasn't too concerned after only 4 weeks.
Hmmm this is your first mistake, you were in a prep cycle.

After Xmas I had 3 weeks off training to let some injuries heal and then started the 12 week cycle, last week I started getting flu symptoms - this happens to me whenever I take a break from training and jump straight back into a full training cycle.
I think what i would have done here is taken a day and tested my maxes to see where I'm at or reduced my current maxes by 10%.

Add to this that I mostly train alone, the group I train with once a week do periodization so I am the black sheep right now, but I need to maintain alliance with some PA/IPF lifters or I have no-one to help me at comps.
How you train should not matter to them. As long as they are willing to spot you.

My dilemma is this: do I adjust the suited max's down and possibly not hit any PB's for the comp? do I persevere with the current no's even if I cant complete the prescribed sets? Or do I throw my hands up and go back to westside training / periodization.
I would not go back, one solution is to wear looser equipment when training by yourself or none at all. Yes, you can even use a bench shirt by yourself.

Feel free to tell me to HTFU. Its really not like me to lack drive, so I don't know whats going wrong right now. However constructive criticism will be greatly welcomed :-)
hang in there...

[Deleted]

Well I've stuck with it, I'm in week 9 and have not felt "beat up" for a few weeks - too easy now ;-) .

Have the skills evaluation tonight but can only do squat and deads - will do the bench on Saturday at Apollo when I have a one-on-one session. While my raw bench is still 'ok' my shirted bench is failing badly.

The comp is now only few weeks away but I'm already planning for the 2nd comp which is only 4 weeks later. I was thinking of going back to week 9 and repeating the last 4 weeks but it doesnt make sense to do another skills eval immediately after the comp, so suggestions would be welcome here.

Also, excuse my beginners ignorance, but I see on the forum discussion about CMS rating and so there seems to be some logic as to which programs to follow based on this rating. How do I work this out what my rating is and what program are suitable and which are not?

Thanks again

[Deleted]

www.tmuscle.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/sheiko_shakes_up_powerlifting

If you scroll down some, the chart is on there. I'll leave it to someone else to suggest routines for someone that is not at a CMS or higher level, but from what I've seen, the most common 12 week layout would be 29/37/32, or if you are experienced with sheiko and can take a little more intensity 30/31/32. Hope that helps some.

Now that I think about it, that chart is for men, so hopefully someone else has a better chart.

[spsfw]

well done on sticking it out.
What do you think is the issue with bench? Dave has tweaked my template for shirted bench and I think the current template I am using is great for bench, but it might depend what the problem is. I guess with the question about the comps it depends whether you want to have a big hit out in both or not. I'm probably doing the same comp as you, then 5 weeks later world bench, then 7 weeks later nationals. I'm doing prep weeks all the way up to the first comp, which I'll do as a skills assessment, then something 4 more weeks of prep and deload week for world bench, then 4 weeks prep and 3 weeks comp for the nats. If you want to have a fair hit out at both I would say after the next comp I'd do something like a conditioing week (assuming the 1st comp will beat up up), then 2 and 3 of 37, then the final week of 32. Not perfect, but ok. In fact- the best thing to do would be to ask Dave- forget my opinion- Dave is the expert.

Mar 18, 2010 1:38:10 GMT -5 @deadliftdiva said:

Well I've stuck with it, I'm in week 9 and have not felt "beat up" for a few weeks - too easy now ;-) .

Have the skills evaluation tonight but can only do squat and deads - will do the bench on Saturday at Apollo when I have a one-on-one session. While my raw bench is still 'ok' my shirted bench is failing badly.

The comp is now only few weeks away but I'm already planning for the 2nd comp which is only 4 weeks later. I was thinking of going back to week 9 and repeating the last 4 weeks but it doesnt make sense to do another skills eval immediately after the comp, so suggestions would be welcome here.

Also, excuse my beginners ignorance, but I see on the forum discussion about CMS rating and so there seems to be some logic as to which programs to follow based on this rating. How do I work this out what my rating is and what program are suitable and which are not?

Thanks again

[joeldibattista]

Just email Dave. He is the man.

[davebates]

Mar 18, 2010 1:38:10 GMT -5 @deadliftdiva said:

Well I've stuck with it, I'm in week 9 and have not felt "beat up" for a few weeks - too easy now ;-) .

Have the skills evaluation tonight but can only do squat and deads - will do the bench on Saturday at Apollo when I have a one-on-one session. While my raw bench is still 'ok' my shirted bench is failing badly.
What do you mean falling badly?

The comp is now only few weeks away but I'm already planning for the 2nd comp which is only 4 weeks later. I was thinking of going back to week 9 and repeating the last 4 weeks but it doesnt make sense to do another skills eval immediately after the comp, so suggestions would be welcome here.
Send me a pm with your email and I will try to help.

Also, excuse my beginners ignorance, but I see on the forum discussion about CMS rating and so there seems to be some logic as to which programs to follow based on this rating. How do I work this out what my rating is and what program are suitable and which are not?
Almost everyone i work with does 3 days a week. More is not always better.
The hard part is finding the correct amount of work for YOU that builds your strength.

Thanks again

[Deleted]

Comp results from today (in kgs):

weighed in at 67.45

Squat 137.5 (failed depth) 145 (failed depth) 145 passed - weight was not an issue - came up easy missing depth my a fraction... 145 = equal PB

Bench 90 passed, 95 failed - mis grooved, 95 failed bum off bench but pressed ok. 90 = plus 5kg PB

Deadlift 170 easy, 180 good, 190 failed - failed to keep my back tight - got it half up shin. 180 = minus 5kg on my best deadlift

total 415 - overall this is a plus 5kg PB

4 weeks now until Masters Nationals......

[benburgess]

Good work.

Sounds like, technical aspects aside, that you have built plenty strength on the cycle

[joeldibattista]

I missed your last deadlift, but your second looked very easy to me. Good work.

[Deleted]

I missed my last deadlift too - LOL.

The bar rolled away from my right shin and it was all over.

[spsfw]

well done!
You now know what things to work on. All the issues you had are technical and you can turn your attention to this in training- so next time you can realise those strength gains.
Joel is right- the second deadlift was awesome!