Sheiko and Other Sports

[Deleted]

hi,
what is people's opinions as to sheiko training and it's application to sports other than powerlifting? forexample, rugby league, rugby union, soccer, track and field, gridiron, etc. would one just do the templates as written ?
mark

[spsfw]

I might be wrong, but I would say that westside (with its greater variation) might offer more to sports that require a greater range of athletic attributes. Shieko makes you good at powerlifting, you could substitute lifts for others to produce different types of attributes I guess, but something like westside would work great. From what I understand westside has made quite an impact on strength and conditioning for rugby and rugby league.

[davebates]

Dec 18, 2009 8:06:08 GMT -5 spsfw said:

I might be wrong, but I would say that westside (with its greater variation) might offer more to sports that require a greater range of athletic attributes. Shieko makes you good at powerlifting, you could substitute lifts for others to produce different types of attributes I guess, but something like westside would work great. From what I understand westside has made quite an impact on strength and conditioning for rugby and rugby league.

I agree with you on that one.....

[benburgess]

Me too, I snowboard, play squash sometimes, hit the bag sometimes and i think my training makes me worse at all of em really.

Makes me loads better at powerlifting though.

[Deleted]

It may look like that, but I'm sure it isnt.

First of all westside is not a great way to weigthtrain, because it is made on "bad reading" of some eastern books.
A part from that, training in a sheiko way (lower volume for one who compete in other sport) teach you how to "recruite motor unit" in a very good way.

Take a sheiko lifters and a westside lifters. Who jumps longer and higher? who is more atheltic? Who has the more functional muscle mass? Who need less steroids to have great result? Who is faster?

[benburgess]

Dec 21, 2009 16:09:26 GMT -5 @adogruzza said:

It may look like that, but I'm sure it isnt.

First of all westside is not a great way to weigthtrain, because it is made on "bad reading" of some eastern books.
A part from that, training in a sheiko way (lower volume for one who compete in other sport) teach you how to "recruite motor unit" in a very good way.

Take a sheiko lifters and a westside lifters. Who jumps longer and higher? who is more atheltic? Who has the more functional muscle mass? Who need less steroids to have great result? Who is faster?

Not sure about all of that Ado...

'Training in a sheiko way teaches you to recruit motor units in a very good way'

I dont necessarily disagree with that, but what Sheiko training makes you better at is limit strength. What other sports require limit strength? Not many, and not any of the ones listed in the original post.

'Who jumps longer and higher? Who is more athletic?'

Have any direct comparisons been made? Not sure you can say all PL'ers who train sheiko are better jumpers and more athletic than all who train WSB.

'Who need less steroids to have great result?'

Come on...thats daft. Sure, there are probably plenty guys who train at WSB who use gear, but jeez, theres a f*cking state sponsored doping program in Russia, and those guys are meant to compete in a clean fed! At least the WSB lifters on gear compete untested.


Dont get me wrong, im the biggest Sheiko nuthugger there is, I just dont think most of them comments are sustainable when you break them down.

[Deleted]

Not exactly:

1) The great step forward of Sheiko training copared to all there was in west before is :

SPEED. Sheiko improuve the ability of athlet to reach faster the maximum strength, the perfect sincronization of motor unit in a lower period of time. (pass my english)


2) in a way of limit strength sheiko works very few, There are only some singles at 90% in mouth of training. All other training style works slower but with many more reps in that level of intensity. It is usval to see a WSB works always near limit, also in repetition.

3) yes I've got many direct comparisons: not only with wsb lifters but with every lifters who train in a "bodybuildesque" way. WSB as planty of bodybuilding inside.
In my homecountry there are 2 major teams who train in a distribuited way (like sheiko or any weightlifting related training plans) and you could bet : "this guy is from that team". Body posture, speed, athletism. These athlet look like athlets, other looks like gymguy.
As far as test on long jump and high jump I always made with my athlets, and there are no doubt.

4) Distribuited load method is (as regards my esperience) the best way to train NATURAL. Obviously, if you are on steroyd, it is better (for performance), but i've no doubt on it.

You mention "nationa sponsored program": You know how it works with WADA control? If you are inside IPF and you know it, you should know that the level of steroyd a lifter can rationally assume is DRASTICALLY LOWER than the last bodybuilders of your block.
You probably shoud know that is not russia the only one in Steroyd, probably that's the same all over the world. Sadly high level powerlifting is involved (for the majority) in steroyd, In IPF the abuse is by far LOWER than in other places.

In sum: if you train to get powerfull, technique and fast: you increase your ability to recruite motor unit.
If you train without much control, and alway no pain no gain (a part from DE training, that are badly design) you'll became strong, yes, but without the ability to recruit perfectly your motor unit. That's way Sheiko training is better than WSB, in all way.

Most of all for a guy without steroyds, who hasnt the innatura boost. Most of the things of WSB (and other ways of training) will increase drastically "body system stress".

[spsfw]

I am no expert, but from what I have heard from others working in the strength and conditioning business I have to agree with Ben. I agree that if you train to get powerful, excellent technique etc in the powerlifts then Sheiko is the way to go. But, with a sport like rugby or rugby league where the athlete, in their sport, is required to run a lot, move laterally as well as back and forward, wrestle, tackle, pass, kick etc- it make sense for their training to reflect the diversity of the attributes required. It may be that squatting is the king of exercises for building leg strength, but this is a small part of the picture for such an athlete. They need a combination of approaches, cardio vascular endurance as well as strength- and strength in a complex varied way. It seems to me that part of what makes Sheiko so effective is the balance of specificity (movements) and variation (loading) that produces excellent powerlifters- the specificity part of this seems lost with other sports. If I was training a strongman competitor I'd recommend changes to lifts to better reflect the movements performed. But, if the demands also shift to a balance of endurance (primarily running for eg) as well as movements- you end up with something like wsb anyway (IMO)- if we are indeed focusing here on the weight training component. Sheiko also works with the idea of peaking- while you are building strength you don't necessarily feel strong- how would this work for an athlete who competes weekly?

I used to train in a WSB way- now Sheiko. The powerlift movements build very specific strength. In relative terms I am weaker in some movements than I had been when I trained with more varied movements. My barbell row is also weaker, as is my barbell curl and my overhead press. But, my powerlifts are a lot stronger. The point I am trying to make is that if you sport requires a variety of attributes and strengths (movements) then the training needs to address this.
Just trying to add something to this conservation.

[Deleted]

My experience is totally different.

But when I mention "sheiko style" I mean "distribuited load training" vs non distribuited load, or buffer lifting vs all way down lifting.

You are 100% right that a sport athlet need to do differnt things, lower volume, less deadlift, less squat, BUT he must do it in a "distribuited load way".

Made every single reps as fast as you can, 100% perfect tecnically, low to medium %1rm, many sets, makes you faster, better jumper, and helps you in fast movement. This was totally absent from wsb method.
I'll do a speach in jenuary in University of Science of Human movement, but i TOTALLY CANNOT EXPLAIN MYSELF IN ENGLISH. :-)