Z Health and Holosync

[robwhite]

Eric,

i know you used to use Hlosync to assist meditation. I am trying to get into meditation to help my adrenal recovery, but im having problems having the patience to sit and meditate because i am one of these types that fidgets and gets impatient quickly, so im wondering if the holosync CD's would help. Are they worth it?

Whilst reading a review on Holosync, this site www.begin2dig.com/2009/09/b2d-articles-about-z-health-what-is-it.html also discussed a recovery and mobility modality called Z-Health www.zhealth.net/. Have you heard of it? T-nation interviewd one of the founders a while back and it sounded quite interesting. www.tmuscle.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance_interviews/djm_training Guys like Eric Cressey and Dan John have mentioned it in the past.

EDIT: since spending some time looking at binaural beat CD's, it seems Holosync are a bit of a rip off. A much cheaper binaural beats package i've seen are the CD's produced Immrama Institute, which have good reviews.

I also found an alternative brainwave entrainment technology to binaural beats called ‘isochronic tones’. This technology doesn’t require earphones because it doesn’t rely on differential frequencies in each ear, and apparently there is research to show that isochronic tones penetrate deeper into the sub consciousness than binaural beats to produce more pronounced brainwave effects. I cant really find a lot of commercial packages on it. The only one at a quick glance is OptiMINDzation. There seems to be a lot of free isochronic tracks on the web.

I cant seem to get a definitive answer on whether isochronic tones produce better results than binaural beats. Some reviewers suggest if binaural beats don’t work for you, then isochronic tones might be better.

[robwhite]

Anyone got any input on any of this stuff?

[Deleted]

Rob,

I've heard excellent things about Z-Health. I've looked into it, although not that deep, for my teams but I think it would be too hard to implement. A good friend of mine is certified and raves about it. The drawback is that it takes alot of time and attention to detail, and you need to get certifited (expensive) to really understand it. If interested I'd start with either the quick start guide, R phase, or neural warmup product (based on needs) and pursue further if you feel its working. I've never really heard anything negative from people who are certified, they all rave about it (although it they seem to be cultish like the kettlebell, crossift, etc groups - this is THE way). Hope this helps.

[Deleted]

Rob,
Eric had mentioned Holosync to me also. Have you started the program? Any thoughts? I'm completely unfamiliar with it. Is this the official product? www.centerpointe.com/

[robwhite]

Ta. Sounds promising.

I was really after something that i can work into my GPP putside of my Sheiko sessions - say, just an extra 15 mins or so of effective mobility work.

I've been using Paul Chek's Zone Exercises out of his book 'Eat, Move, and Be Healthy', which includes stuff like Feldenkrais and Tai Chi exercises, and its been fantastic for stress relief, mobility, and muscle coordination. However, i wouldnt mind bolstering the repertoire with some of ths Z Health stuff if it works and its easy to apply.

[Deleted]

Eric Cressey's mobility product is good as is the Parisi warmup method. The mobility and AIS stretch sections in Core performance are excellent as well.

[erictalmant]

Okay...the Holosync stuff:

For me, it was not as effective as reading and then implementing some techniques from "Meditation for Dummies", "The Power of Now", "A New Earth", "The Seat of the Soul", etc.

I have read Centerpointe's book "Thresholds of the Mind" and I like most of what is in there. However, I guess the proof is in the pudding. I only tried and listened to the Awakening Prologue (the suggested first 60 minutes-but that same 60 minutes for weeks and weeks) and did not go any higher.

I just seemed to "get more" out of reading certain concepts and then having them stir in the back of my brain all day while I worked on them in real world situations.

Maybe Holosync was a tiny bridge that got me to where I am right now? I did not have the experiences that they promote on their web site and in Bill Harris's talks.

Just my .02

[robwhite]

Thanks for your insight Eric.

I think i am like you in this matter, in that i prefer to spend my time absorbing knowledge from books, videos, etc.

I have been listening to 'The Dive' in the Holosync Awakening Prologue for about 2 weeks now, and it certainly made me feel more calm and content, but i cant really say its done much else for me at the moment. I will be moving onto the 'Immersion' track next. My biggest issue is that i find it difficult to sit / lay down for 60 minutes and effectively do nothing but listen to these tracks - as i said before, i would rather spend what precious little time i get to myself absorbing knowledge and discovering new concepts.

However, one beneficial track i have found from Holosync is the Quietude track, which i listen to when reading. I find it helps somewhat retain in my mind what i am reading when the text is particularly dry.

I am considering trying the binural beat CD that Mercola recommends - the Insight CD by Immrama Institute, which i briefly alluded to before. Across the web it has good reviews. Its a fraction of the cost, and you can get benefits in as little as 20 minutes, and all of the sound frequency layers that Centrepoint would have you pay thousands of dollars for over a number of years are on the single Immrama Insight CD via multi-layer encoding. I.e. when you listen to it, your brain just picks up the frequencies its currently capable of recieving, and as it gets better at recieving lower frequencies, it will automatically pick those up during your next listening session. Basically, that one CD could be good enough for years.

[Deleted]

Rob,
Let me know what you think of the Immrama CD or anything else that you find that works. I'm a little like you....don't know if meditation is right for me, but am willing to at least take a look at it and other options.

In reference to Holosync and the other 60 minute long type programs. Do you think the beats/music/whatever is working or just the fact that you are taking time out of the day to be still and relax? If you currently aren't doing anything then suddenly add 60 minutes of anything relaxing (walk, massage, yoga, hot tub, sauna, etc etc) how do you know the CD works?
thoughts? thanks,

[robwhite]

I used to do yoga and tai chi years ago, and know what its like to sit and meditate for a while (sessions used to normally last 30 mins to 1 hour). I lost touch with it a bit over the last 5 years, but i can still remember the sensations.

With binaural beats, there is something i get which is definately not the same as standard meditation, and that is these strange sensations in my head and perception. For example, when i go for a walk (i.e NOt just sitting there quietly) and listen to the theta-inducing tracks like Holosync's The Dive, about 15 mins into it i start walking very slowly, absorbing all the details around me, and colours become very vibrant. This all happens without me conciously realising it until i've been doing it for about 10 minutes. When i'm reading or studying, if i listed to beta-inducing tracks like Oasis my concentration is lengthened noticeably. With gamma-wave inducing tracks like on Gamma Meditation System by Jeffery Thompson, i get this strange feeling in my head like someone has just 'switched on' the rear portion of my brain.

If you really want to push it, listed to Gates of Hades by i-Doser

[erictalmant]

Oct 13, 2009 5:04:10 GMT -5 robwhite said:

Thanks for your insight Eric.

I think i am like you in this matter, in that i prefer to spend my time absorbing knowledge from books, videos, etc.

I have been listening to 'The Dive' in the Holosync Awakening Prologue for about 2 weeks now, and it certainly made me feel more calm and content, but i cant really say its done much else for me at the moment. I will be moving onto the 'Immersion' track next. My biggest issue is that i find it difficult to sit / lay down for 60 minutes and effectively do nothing but listen to these tracks - as i said before, i would rather spend what precious little time i get to myself absorbing knowledge and discovering new concepts.

However, one beneficial track i have found from Holosync is the Quietude track, which i listen to when reading. I find it helps somewhat retain in my mind what i am reading when the text is particularly dry.

I am considering trying the binural beat CD that Mercola recommends - the Insight CD by Immrama Institute, which i briefly alluded to before. Across the web it has good reviews. Its a fraction of the cost, and you can get benefits in as little as 20 minutes, and all of the sound frequency layers that Centrepoint would have you pay thousands of dollars for over a number of years are on the single Immrama Insight CD via multi-layer encoding. I.e. when you listen to it, your brain just picks up the frequencies its currently capable of recieving, and as it gets better at recieving lower frequencies, it will automatically pick those up during your next listening session. Basically, that one CD could be good enough for years.

Please keep us posted on the binural beat CD if you decide to try it. I am curious to hear your feedback.

Do you know what Zen is?

Doing only one thing at a time.

[erictalmant]

Oct 16, 2009 11:36:46 GMT -5 robwhite said:

I used to do yoga and tai chi years ago, and know what its like to sit and meditate for a while (sessions used to normally last 30 mins to 1 hour). I lost touch with it a bit over the last 5 years, but i can still remember the sensations.

With binaural beats, there is something i get which is definately not the same as standard meditation, and that is these strange sensations in my head and perception. For example, when i go for a walk (i.e NOt just sitting there quietly) and listen to the theta-inducing tracks like Holosync's The Dive, about 15 mins into it i start walking very slowly, absorbing all the details around me, and colours become very vibrant. This all happens without me conciously realising it until i've been doing it for about 10 minutes. When i'm reading or studying, if i listed to beta-inducing tracks like Oasis my concentration is lengthened noticeably. With gamma-wave inducing tracks like on Gamma Meditation System by Jeffery Thompson, i get this strange feeling in my head like someone has just 'switched on' the rear portion of my brain.

If you really want to push it, listed to Gates of Hades by i-Doser

I would agree with Rob here in relation to the Holosync tracks. Check out the book "Thresholds of the Mind" for more of an explanation. However, for me it seems that putting concepts into practice consciously while always trying to be present in the now works best. I can't always be listening to Holosync during the entire day!

[robwhite]

I was considering getting the Immrama CD's but i noticed something even better - NeuroProgrammer 2. This package has some cool features such as:


o Can create brainwave entrainment tracks that use combinations of binaural beats, monural beats, isochronic tones, and photic driving (via strobes on your monitor screen, or even better, dedicated goggles hardware), and as many layers of frequency levels as you like. There is reasearch to show that monural beats produce more powerful effects than binaural - In a 1973 issue of Scientific American, Dr. Gerald Oster examined how combining 2 pure tones resulted in a rhythmic beat which he called Binaural and Monaural Beats. In comparing Binaural beats against Monaural beats, Oster noted that Monaural beats were shown to elicit extremely strong cortical responses, which is the electrical activity responsible for entrainment. Oster concluded that while Binaural Beats produced very little neural response (because the depth of a Binaural Beat is only 3db or 1/10 the volume of a whisper), they could be useful in diagnosing certain neurological disorders. Isochronic tones are even more powerful than monaural (1981, Arturo Manns).



o Can save off tracks to MP3 without any problems (its designed to work even when compressed);

o Can add in your own subliminal messages to tracks via mic;

o Over 125 sessions for all purposes and brainwave levels, and once you register the software you get access to an online members area which has hundreds more;

I'm drawn to this because:

a) It allows you to get the same packages offered by Imramma, Holosync, etc. for peanuts (excellent duplicates of these have been created in Members Area for free download if you are a registered NP2 owner).

b) Its very cheap, even compared to Immrama;

c) The use of isochronal and monural beats is very attractive, because it means you dont need to use earphones. When i'm doing gentle stretching exercises or drifting off to sleep, i find having earphones in a pain in the arse. Using isochronal and monural beats gets around this, and effectively allows you to do stuff around the house / office whilst getting an entrainment effect without wearing earphones. I'm also going to take advantage of this by putting Sleep and Wakeup tracks from it on the Lumie Bodyclock Elite 300 i'm going to get for xmas to coincide with the sunset and sunrise simulation www.lumie.com/shop/products/bodyclock-elite-300

d) some of the packages are for sport enhancement and visualisation, which sounds intruiging.

I downloaded the free 2 week trial of NP2 here and the interface is great and really easy to use, you guys should check it out www.transparentcorp.com/products/np/download.php.

This company also does a package called Mind Workstation that uses bio / neurofeedback hardware (finger-mounted pulse monitor, GSR skin conductance monitor, EEG input, etc) to determine your stress state and brainwave activity, and then dynamically alters the entrainment program to change it to your needs. Kinda fits perfectly with the MT principle of individualising the tool to your needs! You are talking a few thousand dollars, but the idea of being able to accurately observe and alter your stress levels in ways totally unique to you is pretty damn cool.

Like i said before, i dont intend to try and crowbar any more time into my schedule to dedicate to listening to this stuff than i already do , but using monaural and isochronic beats seems more effective and practical than binaural beats for my situation.

[Deleted]

Rob,
Did you decide to try the Z health program? If so, how do you like it?

[Deleted]

I've been thinking about this...all of this just seems too good to be true. I purchased the holosync and didn't have time to use it correctly which got me thinking: Is it the sounds that work or is it simply taking an hour out of your day to do nothing? Whenever I take time for my self, ideas bubble up, I contemplate, and it seems so much easier to just let things roll off the mind and therefore relieve stress.

I believe in subliminal messages and something about these systems seems to resonate with me, but if they truly worked the way that subliminal messages work, why wouldn't you be able to listen to these sounds while driving, working, sleeping, etc? Why does holosync say it will not be effective unless you stop what you are doing?

[robwhite]

I've always made an effort to take time out for myself and go for a quiet walk at least a couple of times a week, so i'm well aware of the effects of having 'quiet time'. The effect of these mind entrainment tracks is definately something more than a placebo when comparing their effects to just having quiet time, although i have found that some do nothing for me, whilst others produce a strong effect, and the ones that do work on me have an effect even when i'm walking around doing light activity.

Subliminal messages in the tracks would appear to be the LEAST effective component - its the creation of the frequency changes in the brain (i.e. the 'beat') that are the most powerful aspect.

I didnt try the Z Health. I've got a comp coming up and didnt want to change my GPP routine at the mo.

[Deleted]

Rob,
Excellent find, thanks for sharing. Let us know how you like it when you recieve the package. So this is basically like itunes for brainwave entertainment?

Why did you choose the Lumie clock over the Soleil? Is the Lumie only available over seas? Couldn't find it in a limited search in the US. I have the Soleil on my Xmas list also. It doesn't look like you can add additonal tracks to it though.

thanks.

[robwhite]

Yeah, the interface for NP2 is really easy, just like iTunes.

Lumie were being hyped in alot of media in Europe. Never heard of Soleil until you guys mentioned it. I guess i went with the Lumie years ago cos i got sucked in with the hype and i was desperate for something to help my sleep - in restrospect, I dont regret buying the Lumie.

[Deleted]

Nov 18, 2009 7:47:49 GMT -5 robwhite said:

I didnt try the Z Health. I've got a comp coming up and didnt want to change my GPP routine at the mo.

Keep us posted! I would love to hear what the results are.

[Deleted]

Rob,
Did you end up purchasing the package? How do you like it?