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Post by joeldibattista on Aug 11, 2009 21:04:34 GMT -5
What does everyone think of the pulls to the knee? Personally, I don't think they do much for me - perhaps being an equipped sumo puller strength off the floor isn't really what I need.
Could they be more useful for a raw conventional puller perhaps? Having said that, I know Eric does them and has a great sumo pull.
I'm trying defecit pulls off 2" of mats this cycle instead to see if I can get my deadlift to move up.
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Post by davebates on Aug 11, 2009 22:14:25 GMT -5
What does everyone think of the pulls to the knee? Personally, I don't think they do much for me - perhaps being an equipped sumo puller strength off the floor isn't really what I need. Could they be more useful for a raw conventional puller perhaps? Having said that, I know Eric does them and has a great sumo pull. I'm trying defecit pulls off 2" of mats this cycle instead to see if I can get my deadlift to move up. Where do you miss your lift? |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2009 1:27:58 GMT -5
Hi All!
Im new to this forum!
Currently completing my first few Sheiko Cycles after a few years of being lost in the
world of misguided powerlifting training...
Joel i questioned these as well, as we've spoken about on the other forum we both hold them
for a few seconds at the knees. After completing 29 and 37 and the first time i ever did these
i did find i was much faster off the floor. MUCH faster...
But at max (for me haha) weights i still failed from right at the knee.. (got a little higher but that was the brick wall)
Interested to hear everyones thoughts...
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Post by joeldibattista on Aug 12, 2009 3:47:44 GMT -5
What does everyone think of the pulls to the knee? Personally, I don't think they do much for me - perhaps being an equipped sumo puller strength off the floor isn't really what I need. Could they be more useful for a raw conventional puller perhaps? Having said that, I know Eric does them and has a great sumo pull. I'm trying defecit pulls off 2" of mats this cycle instead to see if I can get my deadlift to move up. Where do you miss your lift? Hmmm, to be honest Dave, I haven't missed a pull for quite some time, but I just don't feel like I've built any strength in the lift, i,e, my 3rd lift at my last comp was hard and it was the same weight as my first comp almost 2 years ago! I feel weakest just below the knee. |
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Post by joeldibattista on Aug 12, 2009 3:48:22 GMT -5
Hi All! Im new to this forum! Currently completing my first few Sheiko Cycles after a few years of being lost in the world of misguided powerlifting training... Joel i questioned these as well, as we've spoken about on the other forum we both hold them for a few seconds at the knees. After completing 29 and 37 and the first time i ever did these i did find i was much faster off the floor. MUCH faster... But at max (for me haha) weights i still failed from right at the knee.. (got a little higher but that was the brick wall) Interested to hear everyones thoughts... Welcome Aaron! |
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Post by robwhite on Aug 12, 2009 5:06:17 GMT -5
The impression i got was pulls to the knees (or 'haltings' as they are sometimes called) are designed to work the first part of the pull and build strength in it. In sumo, the hardest part for most people is getting the bar moving off the floor (as opposed to conventional, where the lockout tends to be harest), so theoretically pulls to the knees should be esp. useful for sumo lifters.
I have seen the olympic weightlifters in my gym doing this, and they say it is to develop control and strength in the first pull, so that they can stay explosive in the second pull even with large weights. When they do it, they do it with a very controlled tempo up and down, so i guess its meant to be done that way for maximum effect. I've only just realised this.
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Post by joeldibattista on Aug 12, 2009 5:18:12 GMT -5
In sumo, the hardest part for most people is getting the bar moving off the floor (as opposed to conventional, where the lockout tends to be harest), so theoretically pulls to the knees should be esp. useful for sumo lifters. Not in a suit though, I could break much more off the floor in my suit than I could lock out. |
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Post by robwhite on Aug 12, 2009 12:11:33 GMT -5
Well, yes i could understand that - using a suit changes the sticking point alot (obviously). Its perhaps a reason why the original context pulls to knees were used - i.e. in olympic lifting, where no supportive gear is used - is perhaps not applicable in equipped powerlifting. Maybe for equipped lifters pulling from a deficit is a better option.
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Post by benburgess on Aug 12, 2009 12:42:45 GMT -5
Whilst i dont think its true that sumo is necessarily always harder off the floor than at lockout (it depends very much on your levers and form), I'm really unsure about pulls to knees too.
Im unsure on several levels:
1) I dont like pulling half the lift then putting the bar back down - its almost like you are training to miss the lift half way up.
2) I dont get how its better than pulling from a defecit.
3) I pull conv. and I only ever miss at the very top so im not sure the 'cookie cutter' mix of full ROM, pulls to knees and pulls off boxes is best for me/everyone.
But then I have also learned along the way that second guessing Uncle Boris usually ends up with worse results than if you just done what he said...
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Post by davebates on Aug 12, 2009 19:22:10 GMT -5
Where do you miss your lift? Hmmm, to be honest Dave, I haven't missed a pull for quite some time, but I just don't feel like I've built any strength in the lift, i,e, my 3rd lift at my last comp was hard and it was the same weight as my first comp almost 2 years ago! I feel weakest just below the knee. Hmmm do you have any video of your deadlift.. |
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Post by davebates on Aug 12, 2009 19:24:31 GMT -5
In sumo, the hardest part for most people is getting the bar moving off the floor (as opposed to conventional, where the lockout tends to be harest), so theoretically pulls to the knees should be esp. useful for sumo lifters. Not in a suit though, I could break much more off the floor in my suit than I could lock out. What is the difference in weight? Equipped vs raw |
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Post by davebates on Aug 12, 2009 19:27:38 GMT -5
What does everyone think of the pulls to the knee? Personally, I don't think they do much for me - perhaps being an equipped sumo puller strength off the floor isn't really what I need. Could they be more useful for a raw conventional puller perhaps? Having said that, I know Eric does them and has a great sumo pull. I'm trying defecit pulls off 2" of mats this cycle instead to see if I can get my deadlift to move up. I'm not sure this would help you since you miss at your knees.. There are some options..... you will need to experiment a little bit and see. Contact me when you have time. It would be completely experimental. |
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Post by joeldibattista on Aug 12, 2009 19:35:23 GMT -5
Dave, here are the videos of my deadlifts from my last comp:-
Difference is weight is approximately 30kg, I'm pretty sure I could pull 220kg raw.
I'm willing to try anything! I'll contact you.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2009 19:41:15 GMT -5
Did you guys come up with some ideas for solutions to this?
After 24ish weeks of Sheiko and Daves reduced volume my squat and Bench are moving
up for the first time in ages, my deadlift im not sure. Im stronger then ever off the floor but the same as Joel said fail just under the knee and feel awkward doing the to knee deads and not sure if they are helping.
Just wondered if you have tried any options?
I wont change anything now my meet is in 2-1/2 weeks but for the next cycle id like to hit
my sumo hard.
thanks
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Post by benburgess on Sept 24, 2009 13:50:34 GMT -5
Did you guys come up with some ideas for solutions to this? After 24ish weeks of Sheiko and Daves reduced volume my squat and Bench are moving up for the first time in ages, my deadlift im not sure. Im stronger then ever off the floor but the same as Joel said fail just under the knee and feel awkward doing the to knee deads and not sure if they are helping. Just wondered if you have tried any options? I wont change anything now my meet is in 2-1/2 weeks but for the next cycle id like to hit my sumo hard. thanks Post a vid if you can mate but I honestly didnt find em helpful either. For a sumo guy who fails at the knee id rather see you do conventional pulls of blocks/pins at mid-shin height. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2009 1:08:04 GMT -5
I actually like the deads to the knees. I lift conventional with belt only. I find when doing pulls to the knees they take less energy then the full pull and I can do more volume easier.
It's hard to say if they have been one of the primary reasons for improvements or not though.
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Post by superaveragebro on Dec 26, 2011 15:38:08 GMT -5
In my opinion deadlifts from pins or boxes will not help anybody, not even lifters with difficulty at lockout. I pulled 255kg raw and heave pulled 300kg from the knee, but my deadlift is still around 255. People who cannot lock the weight out have problems below the knee because that's the hard part for the lower back muscles since the torso is almost parallel to the ground. At that point the back rounds when using maximum load. Then hip bone changes position because of rounded back and hamstrings and glutes, which are the prime movers at lockout get slack. Therefore when you get to lock ou the weight, hamstrings and glutes do not have enough elastic energy in them at that point since the hip structure is closer to the ground than it should be. Thus lifters fail to lock out. But fixing the problem by doing pulls ffrom knees is not the solution. Solution is doing more work below the knee with 70% or a weight that doen not make your lower back bend, and putting in the volume so your low back muscles get stronger.
Uncle Boris is right again!
And apologies for my not so perfect English!
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0ni
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Post by 0ni on Dec 30, 2011 20:38:16 GMT -5
I find that pulls from different heights change the angles of the hips, ankles, knee etc too much and don't carry over much to real pulls. If you look at Konstantinovs train, he only does pulls that are either 10cm higher or 10cm lower, or from the floor. This way the mechanics are not overly different from the actual lift.
I think if you're a conventional puller and miss at the top / knee. Something like heavy RDL's or dimmel deadlifts would be the movement of choice to train that motion
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0ni
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Post by 0ni on Dec 30, 2011 22:43:10 GMT -5
Another thing I'd like to add actually... More higher rep work in general. When you do a higher number of reps per set, the force curve gets flatter and flatter as your fatigue and you learn to grind through the sticking points better.. So instead of doing 5 sets of 3 at 80%, try 4 sets of 4 at 80% or 3 sets of 5. As long as the volume is roughly the same
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