17 weeks-which cycles

[Deleted]

I have been doing sheiko on and off for some time. I am currently 3 weeks into my recent sheiko training. I will be 24 weeks into sheiko training when my next meet will be. After that meet i have 17 weeks till nationals. If I am in the ms or cms category should i begin running those prep and comp cycles or continue with the cycles for rated lifters. And if I should continue on the rated lifters cycles should i do the more intense ones like 30,31,or 40. Like 17 weeks would go 29-30-deload week-31-32 or 2 cms/ms prep cycles with the comp cycle.

[robwhite]

I have never seen the 40 cycle. Can you post details of it, or a link to it?

[deathevocation]

There's a spreadsheet on here which has all the programs. Can't remember which thread it is though 40 is brutal.

[Deleted]

Jul 10, 2009 5:45:57 GMT -5 deathevocation said:

There's a spreadsheet on here which has all the programs. Can't remember which thread it is though 40 is brutal.

If anyone wants this spreadsheet send me a pm with your email address.

[robwhite]

Are you referring to this www.vicjg.com/aspx/downloads/sheiko.xls which i posted in the Translations thread a while back?

Which one is #40? I cant see a #40 on the spreadsheet. Is it the CMS-MS Prep cycle?

[Deleted]

Look at the spreadsheet. #40 is right there. Yes that is it because I have ran that very program

[robwhite]

Damn! The guy must have updated since i downloaded it. Two extra programs / cycles have appeared when i re-downloaded it - #39 and #40.

Any idea how to use these cycles?

[Deleted]

Jul 10, 2009 10:27:28 GMT -5 robwhite said:

Damn! The guy must have updated since i downloaded it. Two extra programs / cycles have appeared when i re-downloaded it - #39 and #40.

Any idea how to use these cycles?

39 then 40 then repeat. When the lifts become easy in 40 bump up your maxes by 5%

[benburgess]

Jul 22, 2009 4:43:03 GMT -5 @jmaddison said:

Jul 10, 2009 10:27:28 GMT -5 robwhite said:

Damn! The guy must have updated since i downloaded it. Two extra programs / cycles have appeared when i re-downloaded it - #39 and #40.

Any idea how to use these cycles?

39 then 40 then repeat. When the lifts become easy in 40 bump up your maxes by 5%

? 4 high intensity prep cycles back to back sounds a bit on top

[Deleted]

Everyone is different, but I don't see 29, 37 or 39 as being taxing prep cycles. My understanding is that you can run them back to back because 39 allows you to recover before hammering your self with 40 again.

There is a significant drop off in lifts between 39 and 40, the load and the intensity drops off significantly too. Aside from total rest, iIm not sure what else you can do.

[Deleted]

Where can i find cycle 39?
can anyone provide a link?

[Deleted]

rapidshare.com/files/140132973/Sheiko_Spreadsheet_2008.08.25.xls.html

I didn't do the spreadsheet, but here is a link to it

[benburgess]

Jul 22, 2009 17:24:30 GMT -5 @jmaddison said:

Everyone is different, but I don't see 29, 37 or 39 as being taxing prep cycles. My understanding is that you can run them back to back because 39 allows you to recover before hammering your self with 40 again.

There is a significant drop off in lifts between 39 and 40, the load and the intensity drops off significantly too. Aside from total rest, iIm not sure what else you can do.

I get what you're saying...though I'm pretty sure what Dave has found is that 2 prep cycles followed by #32 to rest, peak and set new maxes is optimal.

[Deleted]

I'm sure he has his reasons for suggesting it that way, and i'm not going to contradict him as a lot of people find his advice valuable. And I'm also on this forum to find out more

The notion of not doing a peak cycle and continuing with the base cycles is something that was extended to me by a former Ipf lifter who used Sheiko, and still coaches his methods. What he suggested to me was to run the cycles and if i felt fatigued to either take a day off, or to reduce the volume for a period.

I also spoke to another lifter who's had a couple of years experience on sheiko, who said to run the base cycles back to back, and to use the lower volume cycles to recover.

My understanding is that 39 and 40 were designed to work together, without running 32 after them unless a meet was approaching.

[benburgess]

Jul 28, 2009 18:50:32 GMT -5 @jmaddison said:

I'm sure he has his reasons for suggesting it that way, and i'm not going to contradict him as a lot of people find his advice valuable. And I'm also on this forum to find out more

The notion of not doing a peak cycle and continuing with the base cycles is something that was extended to me by a former Ipf lifter who used Sheiko, and still coaches his methods. What he suggested to me was to run the cycles and if i felt fatigued to either take a day off, or to reduce the volume for a period.

I also spoke to another lifter who's had a couple of years experience on sheiko, who said to run the base cycles back to back, and to use the lower volume cycles to recover.

My understanding is that 39 and 40 were designed to work together, without running 32 after them unless a meet was approaching.

Cool, good info in there matey.

Looking at #39 it is quite an 'easy' cycle, 920 lifts at an average RI of 68% so I can see how that would serve as a kind of mild deload after #40 (1220 lifts at 69%) so that all makes pretty good sense.

When you run a large number of prep cycles back to back what do you do with your maxes? Just gradually increase them as you go through the cycles?

[Deleted]

Jul 29, 2009 12:08:36 GMT -5 benburgess said:

Cool, good info in there matey.

Looking at #39 it is quite an 'easy' cycle, 920 lifts at an average RI of 68% so I can see how that would serve as a kind of mild deload after #40 (1220 lifts at 69%) so that all makes pretty good sense.

When you run a large number of prep cycles back to back what do you do with your maxes? Just gradually increase them as you go through the cycles?quote]

Yes, when you can. You do not always have to raise your training maxes. Only when you can. I am not going to raise my bench max and go into 31. This will be the second consecutive cycle where it is not good or I just don't feel good about raising it. I don't believe that it is accurate that you have to do 2 prep cycles and then a peaking cycle. That is just not accurate. Check some of Sheiko's athletes that he has trained and has them running prep cycles back to back to back when a meet is not close.

[Deleted]

Just to back up what Link just said about upping your training weight when you feel comfortable. One of my mates, Chris, has just run two prep cycles without upping his squat max at all. He basically didn't feel comfortable in doing so. His training partner upped his squat max, Craig, and ran a second prep cycle. They were both training together and Craigs lifts are typically faster with heavier weight than Chris lifts

Result, Craig went from a 120kg max to a 145kg max in two months. Chris went from a 105kg max to a 150kg max in the same period. They've both been training the same amount of time, Craig actually outweighs Chris by about 10 pounds or more.

[benburgess]

Sure, you'd never normally change your maxes between two prep cycles.

But it was mentioned earlier about running 4 or more prep cycles back to back.

Lets say you ran 5 prep cycles with no peaking cycle. This is almost 6 months of training. I would have hoped that my maxes would be significantly raised in this time. If your keep your maxes the same throughout these 5 cycles I think you would be missing out on some potential training effect, as later in the cycle loads that would have been appropriate at the start may be to light to ellict a similar strength gain later in the cycle when you are that much stronger.

[Deleted]

Jul 30, 2009 4:42:01 GMT -5 benburgess said:

Sure, you'd never normally change your maxes between two prep cycles.

But it was mentioned earlier about running 4 or more prep cycles back to back.

Lets say you ran 5 prep cycles with no peaking cycle. This is almost 6 months of training. I would have hoped that my maxes would be significantly raised in this time. If your keep your maxes the same throughout these 5 cycles I think you would be missing out on some potential training effect, as later in the cycle loads that would have been appropriate at the start may be to light to ellict a similar strength gain later in the cycle when you are that much stronger.

I would think that running 5 prep cycles back to back would cause your training maxes in any of the lifts to go up. Running that many cycles, you would think that the weights would start to get easier and you would be inclined to raise your training maxes thus going into a new prep cycle. I am still trying to figure out which prep cycles ran in succession would give me the best results.

I have upped my training maxes in the beginning like crazy. When I ran 29 the first time I raised it 2x for the bench in that 4 week prep cycle.

I am coming off of the second run of #37 and don't feel comfortable raising my bench max.

I have ran 29-37-30-40-29 all in succession and am now in the 4th week of 37 without ever running a peaking cycle. All of my lifts have gone up. It is now that I feel that my bench is starting to slow a bit. So I chose #31 to run next because of the higher intensities but I am keeping my max the same for the next cycle. Jmadison is spot on.

Take a look at Andrey Belyaev's training for the first half of 2008 and all he ran was prep cycles back to back. I have been talking with some very experienced Sheiko people (the one that actually made the spreadsheet that everyone uses and who found programs 39 and 40) and they say that this is fine. Only raise your maxes when you are comfortable and keep pressing on.

[davebates]

Jul 28, 2009 18:50:32 GMT -5 @jmaddison said:

I'm sure he has his reasons for suggesting it that way, and i'm not going to contradict him as a lot of people find his advice valuable. And I'm also on this forum to find out more

Welcome!
This is exactly what this forum was set up for, to learn and to share info.

Most lifters I work with want a "break from training" after 12-13 wks in the gym. Especially if the load is large and they have families to tend to.

The notion of not doing a peak cycle and continuing with the base cycles is something that was extended to me by a former Ipf lifter who used Sheiko, and still coaches his methods.
What he suggested to me was to run the cycles and if i felt fatigued to either take a day off, or to reduce the volume for a period.
You can do that, but most lifters need a "mental break" after while


I also spoke to another lifter who's had a couple of years experience on sheiko, who said to run the base cycles back to back, and to use the lower volume cycles to recover.

the real question is, what is the ideal amount of work to build your strength?
Everybody I have worked with is a little different here. Some need a great deal of work and some do not. Your age, lifting experience and how well you recover has a great deal to do with it.

Something I do know for sure with this type of training,
If a lifters average weight in training equals X, they should be able to total Y. (Without equipment)

Here are some guide lines for monthly loads

Below 600 rises per month is considered a small load.
The problem here is what is the program?...
I'm still working on it.......

Between 600 to 800 rises per month is considered avg load
Same here, what is the program?.... This is something I have written and I am testing with a few lifters that want to train, but need a "break" from the large loads.

Between 801 to 1200 rises per month is considered a large load
Most of the programs out there fall into this range.

Over 1200 rises per month is considered max loading.
There are a few of these programs out there too.

My understanding is that 39 and 40 were designed to work together, without running 32 after them unless a meet was approaching.
You could do that but keep in mind #40 will be a 25% increase in volume and a 1.7% increase in intensity. from #39
All I can say about that is ouch!.