Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2009 2:18:08 GMT -5
Hi Eric,
Since this is very much related to nutrition, I thought I'd put it in here. My morning weight at the moment is 79k, typically after a big meal the night before. I have a competition next Sunday (July 5th).
The questions Is it worth me trying to make the cut to 75k and if so, what are the best ways for a fast oxidizer to do this without loosing strength? I know you've done this before from a similar weight. Its a 2 hour weigh in.
|
|
|
|
Post by robwhite on Jun 24, 2009 4:01:42 GMT -5
I suppose it depends on who you have to go up against in each wieght category. In the national comps in UK, 75kg is a tought category because you have the likes of Phil Richards and Rod Hyperlite, so its probably better to go into a higher weight category to face less stiff competition.
In the time you have, it is certainly possible to drop 4 kg, but might be tough. I would:
a) Add 30-40 mins low intensity steady-state cardio in between powerlifting sessions, and possibly at the end of powerlifting session;
b) Restrict carbs to an absolute minimum (just green veggies);
c) If you are consuming lots of fat, consider paring back on the fat a little.
|
|
|
|
Post by erictalmant on Jun 24, 2009 8:26:03 GMT -5
This is good information from Rob. What I do is that I keep my carbohydrates pretty low, cut down most "supplemental" fats (no additional oils in foods or with cooking), and I eliminate some of the foods that are right for my type but not right for my Endocrine Type. For me, this means eliminating all cheeses. You should be able to drop the last 2K with just water (sweat or dehydration) and put it back with celtra salt and di-potassium phosphate in 20 ounces of water until the 2K has been put back. In other words, you COULD try to use dietary manipluations to get you to 77K and then manipulate water for the last 2K.
You can also probably get by with less protein than you are eating now. I usually go from 5-6 ounces of protein per meal to 4-5 per meal and it seems to work for me.
If you have not tried any of these things previously, then it could be a crap shoot for you going forward. They may work well for you and they may not.
Report back to us and let us know how it is going and what you decide to do.
|
|
|
|
Post by robwhite on Jun 24, 2009 8:37:04 GMT -5
Interesting protocol Eric. Will remember that for my next comp. Getting di-potassium phosphate in the Uk is a bit difficult.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2009 9:45:15 GMT -5
Very useful stuff, I shall start with cutting back on the food slightly tomorrow and see where I am at on Monday weight wise. If it looks possible (i.e. 2k or close to 2k) then I'll go for it. I hear its a good idea to drink a lot of water for up to 2 days before and then cut back 2 days out, then nothing the day before the comp with vit C to flush it out some more. I can make this judgement on Monday. As for competing at a national level, I don't have to worry about that just yet.  By the time I do I expect to be a full 82.5k lifter, its just because I'm floating in the middle at the moment I was thinking about making the cut for the experience. |
|
|
|
Post by robwhite on Jun 24, 2009 11:24:30 GMT -5
Yes, one way to dehydrate is to overload on water about 6 days out, then cut it drastically two days beforehand. What happens is your body gets used to large water intake, so you start flushing lots of water out of your system. When you then cut the water, your body continues to flush out lots of water, so you get a large net loss of water = dehydration.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2009 15:17:29 GMT -5
Basically a PSMF-type diet. I'd recommend INCREASING protein to offset any nitrogen losses when you cut calories from carbs and fats. 1-1.5g protein per lbs of BW. You should also carb up prior to the competition, depending on when weigh-ins. Some can actually start carbing up prior the night prior to the weigh-in while restricting water and drop 2kgs overnight. Adding fluids back in as per Eric's suggestion will rehydrate you again.
|
|
|
|
Post by erictalmant on Jun 26, 2009 6:51:19 GMT -5
Very useful stuff, I shall start with cutting back on the food slightly tomorrow and see where I am at on Monday weight wise. If it looks possible (i.e. 2k or close to 2k) then I'll go for it. I hear its a good idea to drink a lot of water for up to 2 days before and then cut back 2 days out, then nothing the day before the comp with vit C to flush it out some more. I can make this judgement on Monday. As for competing at a national level, I don't have to worry about that just yet. By the time I do I expect to be a full 82.5k lifter, its just because I'm floating in the middle at the moment I was thinking about making the cut for the experience. Hey Mark. I know many guys that do the same thing with drinking 2 gallons of water several days out from the meet and then drastically cut back on the water in order to "trick" the body in "ridding" itself of water. I have never tried this, so I cannot really provide any useful feedback. I would have to search my emails to see if I have ever worked with someone that has done this under a 2 hour weigh-in. I have worked with plenty that have done it with a 24 hour weigh-in, but they used other modalities as well; so it is probably not a valid comparison. |
|
|
|
Post by erictalmant on Jun 26, 2009 6:55:44 GMT -5
Basically a PSMF-type diet. I'd recommend INCREASING protein to offset any nitrogen losses when you cut calories from carbs and fats. 1-1.5g protein per lbs of BW. You should also carb up prior to the competition, depending on when weigh-ins. Some can actually start carbing up prior the night prior to the weigh-in while restricting water and drop 2kgs overnight. Adding fluids back in as per Eric's suggestion will rehydrate you again. I know that increasing protein is a common response to such a situation; but in the past when I have done that I actually ended up holding more food in my gut and ended up weighing heavier than I had anticipated. In addition, if I "carb up" (even while restricting water) I really inflate and my weight goes up. This should be another example for everyone that what works for one person will not necessarily work for another person. All excellent ideas, though! Just find out what works best for you. It may take some trial and error, but if you put in the time then you will find something that works well for you. I know I did. Eric |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2009 6:31:36 GMT -5
Well here's the plan that I'm going to try. I weighed in this morning at 78 kilos dead so I think I'm close enough to try and get a 3kilo drop within a week, hopefuly without any loss in strength. Food Monday-Thurs: Take Eric's suggestions, ration 500grams of meat for the day, eat minimal carbs in the form of beans first meal of the day (I usually do first 2 but I'll cut it back). Have butter, nuts, spinach, green beans and cauliflower for veg. Pinch of salt 3 times per day. Water- 15 pints (7.5) per day. Fri: 3 litres of water for the day, cut carbs and salt out. 4000-5000mg vit C. Saturday: Minimal water (1 glass). No carbs, light meals. 4000-5000mg vit C. I'm going for a 2+hour walk today and will try to get at least an hour in per day between now and the competition in place of my usual GPP activities. After weigh in: I'm still deciding on the exact method here, di-potassium phosphate seems to only be available in bulk from what I can see for food manufacturers. I'm thinking a sachet of this: www.pharmacy2u.co.uk/productdetail.aspx?code=DIRR6&affiliateid=81866680101062Then water with salt, a bannana, whole milk with cream and regular food for my type, make sure I include peanuts. All this may or may not work but it'll be good experience I'm sure. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2009 9:22:24 GMT -5
Well it worked a charm, went in at 74.4k. However, performance was way down (-17.5k on the total over last time). Seems I lost my ability to strain through sticking points.
|
|
|
|
Post by robwhite on Jul 6, 2009 11:02:36 GMT -5
Wow. You went in quite a bit under then. Soz to hear about the performance loss. Personally, i'm not a bit fan of megadosing on minerals and vitamins to flush out fluids, because you are messing with your electrolyte balance alot when you do that, and you have to realise that balanced intracellular and extracellular electrolytes are essential for neuromuscular function (e.g. muscle contraction force and speed, and relaxation), which in turn could siginficantly affect muscular power output. You mess with that and you could hurt your performance.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2009 3:18:41 GMT -5
Well, something certainly hurt my performance I can tell you that much, I didn't expect to be stronger but I've got videos and usually, I can strain through the sticking points, if I get the bar moving I'll give it hell until I get there. This is especially the case on the dealift. This time I got it moving twice to around mid shin level and then just gave out! This was a bit of a shock to me as it doesn't usually happen like that. It was unbelieavably frutstrating on the platform but at the end of the day, I've learned a lot and it was my first time trying it. Also, my wilkes was still a good bit better. I think if I want to compete at 75 again, I'm going to have to bring my training weight in a bit closer, at say 76-77k rather than 79k.
And regarding the stiff competition at 75k....have you seen Rob Palmer at 82.5! I've got a long way to go.
|
|
|
|
Post by robwhite on Jul 7, 2009 4:30:44 GMT -5
Yeah, Rob Palmer is an awesome athlete. Would be a tough fight going up against him. As you said, sticking closer to your top-end weight category is probably a bwetter way to go rather than trying to dehydrate and mess with your electrolytes to make weight.
|
|
|
|
Post by erictalmant on Jul 8, 2009 17:07:21 GMT -5
Wow. You went in quite a bit under then. Soz to hear about the performance loss. Personally, i'm not a bit fan of megadosing on minerals and vitamins to flush out fluids, because you are messing with your electrolyte balance alot when you do that, and you have to realise that balanced intracellular and extracellular electrolytes are essential for neuromuscular function (e.g. muscle contraction force and speed, and relaxation), which in turn could siginficantly affect muscular power output. You mess with that and you could hurt your performance. Very well put! |
|
|
|
Post by erictalmant on Jul 8, 2009 17:12:37 GMT -5
Well, something certainly hurt my performance I can tell you that much, I didn't expect to be stronger but I've got videos and usually, I can strain through the sticking points, if I get the bar moving I'll give it hell until I get there. This is especially the case on the dealift. This time I got it moving twice to around mid shin level and then just gave out! This was a bit of a shock to me as it doesn't usually happen like that. It was unbelieavably frutstrating on the platform but at the end of the day, I've learned a lot and it was my first time trying it. Also, my wilkes was still a good bit better. I think if I want to compete at 75 again, I'm going to have to bring my training weight in a bit closer, at say 76-77k rather than 79k. And regarding the stiff competition at 75k....have you seen Rob Palmer at 82.5! I've got a long way to go. Keep us posted. I am in exactly the same boat as you. My body likes to be about 172 or so on any given day. So, when I compete I can either go down to 165 OR go up to 181. Since i am obviously giving away about 10 pounds, I always go down to 165 for the major competitions and just come in at whatever I weigh for the other ones. Many years ago I used to do some of that electrolyte manipulation, and it was almost always a disaster. Today, I do things much different. However, ASSUME NOTHING because we are all very individual! Once you find what works for you, then stick to it and you will be fine. However, you will probably have to pay your dues before you settle on a winning formula. I know I did. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2009 3:46:12 GMT -5
Well, I guess its a case of investigating each factor one at a time. For my next competition, I'll look into coming in closer a couple of weeks before and not mega dosing on the vit C and seeing if that helps out the electrolyte issue. It seems like a good place to start.
|
|
|
|
Post by erictalmant on Jul 17, 2009 7:05:51 GMT -5
Well, I guess its a case of investigating each factor one at a time. For my next competition, I'll look into coming in closer a couple of weeks before and not mega dosing on the vit C and seeing if that helps out the electrolyte issue. It seems like a good place to start. If that is what your body is telling you, then go with it. For me, I simply cut out the foods that clash with my adrenal type and I am usually good to go. For example, if I am eating raw goat cheese and using raw goat milk daily I usually walk around at 173 in the morning and 175 or so at night. The moment I drop them in a matter of days I am walking around at 170 in the morning. Keep trying new things and then find out what works for you. Perhaps you don't need to do anything exotic. Just fine tune your diet, take the right supplements, lose a little water weight the 12-24 hours before the meet, and then simply put it back with water, sea salt, and di-potassium phosphate. All of that craziness we sometimes read on other web sites is just that-craziness. If those guys had to compete under more strict conditions, I promise you there would be quite different outcomes. Listen to those that do what you do. |
|
By the time I do I expect to be a full 82.5k lifter, its just because I'm floating in the middle at the moment I was thinking about making the cut for the experience.