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Post by benburgess on Dec 27, 2008 18:27:16 GMT -5
Session 2: 60 minutes total 1. Warm-up/stretching: 10 minutes 2. 10 minutes of flexibility/mobility exercises 3. Sprints from a walking start (30 meters) at 80-90% intensity x 2 x 30 meters 4. Shot put x 20 throws 5. Medicine ball throws (bending over and throwing behind and in front of the head) x 20 throws 6. Any sports game (shooting hoops, kicking the soccer ball, etc.) x 20 minutes 7. Swimming or flexibility and hanging exercises (quasi-gymnastics): 2 x 50 meters; 2 x 100 meters or a comparable amount of time Did you say soccer ball??? ;D Nah, Eric did.
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Post by benburgess on Dec 27, 2008 5:46:03 GMT -5
Not as much as i should.
If i get out for a walk with a few hill sprints or similar thrown in a couple of times a week i'm fairly happy.
I should be doing this:
Session 1: 60 minutes total 1. Warm-up/Stretching: 10 minutes 2. Sprints from high start position (80-89% of best time) x 5 repetitions x 30 meters; 2 x 60 meters 3. Regular start sprints 80-89% x 1 x 100 meters 4. Running with high knees with short steps 4 x 50 meters 5. Standing jumping exercises, alternating two and one leg take-offs x 20 jumps 6. Running long jumps (5-7 steps and no LESS than 80% of max) x 10 jumps
Session 2: 60 minutes total 1. Warm-up/stretching: 10 minutes 2. 10 minutes of flexibility/mobility exercises 3. Sprints from a walking start (30 meters) at 80-90% intensity x 2 x 30 meters 4. Shot put x 20 throws 5. Medicine ball throws (bending over and throwing behind and in front of the head) x 20 throws 6. Any sports game (shooting hoops, kicking the soccer ball, etc.) x 20 minutes 7. Swimming or flexibility and hanging exercises (quasi-gymnastics): 2 x 50 meters; 2 x 100 meters or a comparable amount of time
Session 3: 60 minutes total Everything is the same as session 1 EXCEPT the last exercise is High Jump or Long Jump x 10 total jumps
Session 4: 120 minutes total 1. Warm-up/stretching: 20 minutes 2. Dynamic Flexibility/Mobility Exercises: 10 minutes 3. Standing jumping exercises (1/3/5 jumps), alternating two and one leg take offs x 50 jumps 4. Throwing exercises (shot put, medicine ball, whatever) bending over and throwing behind and in front of the head x 100 throws 5. Cross country running or jogging at a moderate pace for at least 15 minutes.
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Post by benburgess on Dec 27, 2008 5:25:25 GMT -5
I do them like MM do it, throwing the bar down hard onto the board, sinking it in and then reversing it back up as explosively as possible.
Obviously i touch a lot higher than they do though.
But what the hell do i know, my eqp bench has fallen out my arse recently.
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Post by benburgess on Dec 27, 2008 5:23:19 GMT -5
I think a lot depends on how tight you wrap 'em, and how you squat (wider + sitting back = less support from knee wraps).
Personally if i were in your position Steve i would add ~20kg to my raw sq max and use that to base your %'ages off.
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Post by benburgess on Dec 22, 2008 13:10:54 GMT -5
How about any of you lads.... * Time running Sheiko cycles * Cycle history (#'s etc.) * Lifts
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Post by benburgess on Dec 22, 2008 13:09:46 GMT -5
Since then...
I have been running Sheiko cycles since about Feb this year. The cycles I have run are #37 (raw), #37 (some equipment), #29 (raw), #30 (eqp), #31 (eqp), #32 (eqp) and the 5 Wk Comp (eqp).
Mostly they have been in some kind of progression, and most I have run more than once. The 1st one I ran (#37 raw) moved me backwards without a doubt (all lifts) 'cos my body was not ready for the volume. The 2nd I started to get used to it. Since then I have been making steady progress.
So in the last year: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Raw Squat - I dont max on this but I feel it hasn't really moved, mostly because I concentrate on my equipped squat. Form has become WAY more consistent and dialed in though.
Eqp Squat - Increased my best competition sq by 10kg. Am a million times more solid and consistent setting up and hitting (IPF) depth too.
Raw Bench - I started the year with a shoulder injury and couldn't really bench. My bench has improved over my pre-injury all-time best by at least 10kg (never raw max).
Eqp Bench - Has gone down by ~15kg. This is partly due to the above but shirt benching and Sheiko is not something I have got the key too yet. This is the most interesting and frustrating bearing in mind that my raw bench is way up. Shows you the importance of the lockout training I 'spose.
Raw DL - Has increased by at least 25kg. I never max on this, but all my 80-85% training weights feel proper piss easy.
Eqp DL - Increased my competition DL by 25kg.
Eqp Total - Increased my competition PB total by 35kg.
Comments - All-in-all, a fairly sucessful year with plenty to be happy about and also things that are getting right on me tits (eqp bench). DL is by far the biggest gainer, although I think the knowlege I've learnt about how me body responds to training this way is probably equally as big a gain (gay).
2009 I HAVE to get the eqp bench moving back the right way. If my raw bench has to suffer for this, so be it. It really is about time my raw squat moved up too. A lot of the problem here is form...I sq wide in a suit and sit right back and use a lot of arse power. This style doesnt work well for me raw full squatting.
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Post by benburgess on Dec 22, 2008 12:45:26 GMT -5
For my 12th birthday he bought me a litre of Stolichyna and a bearskin hat.
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Post by benburgess on Dec 22, 2008 12:41:52 GMT -5
To your first point: yes. However, if you want a strong lockout for shirt benching then overloading the top with just straight weight for board presses, etc. is the way to go in my opinion over chains and bands. To your second point: this is tough to quantify because it varies from lifter to lifter. Let me think on this one because it might be more than just a lifter's classification. I will need to go back and review my notes. 1. Cool, I happen to agree as it goes. I just used bench with chains as an example as it is one of the few movements in the Bench Supplemental list that does overload the top end. 2. Again, cool, and take your time. I'm just curious although not bi-curious. I guess it would be useful to know though.
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Post by benburgess on Dec 21, 2008 17:23:49 GMT -5
i would have one of these, no doubt.
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Post by benburgess on Dec 21, 2008 9:46:22 GMT -5
Yep, some great info there Eric. At some point, if a lifter is absolutely and positively certain that they are stronger in one area and weaker in another then substitutions such as the one you suggested above can certainly be made. Would you say, then, that this could be extended to not only where lifters are weak, but what they require from their training? e.g. a shirted bencher requires strong triceps for the lockout. Lets say the cycle they are following has them raw benching twice in the same session. It seems to me that switching the 2nd bench movement for one of the supplemetal SPP movements that hits the lockout harder (e.g. bench with chains) would be sensible. The reason why Dave suggests to just do the programs as written for 1-2 cycles (I say much longer) is because you may not necessarily be muscularly weak so much as you are not that neurologically efficient. Your body may not know the movement as well as you *think* it does. This is gold. Is there a way of determining between muscular weakness and neurological inefficiency then?
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Post by benburgess on Dec 19, 2008 11:36:29 GMT -5
Here's a question for Dave or Eric about the supplemental/developmental thing...
The developmental movements are the ones that can be chosen to be used at the end of the workout, with lighter weights, right? This seems clear as they are prescribed often in the programs (e.g. GM's or lunges).
So when are the supplemental ones used? It seems that they are also in the programs, often in the 'main body' of work, e.g. pulls to knees, then full pulls. Is it the case that these supplemental SPP movements would be subbed in the programs to suit a lifters needs or weaknesses?
e.g. the program as written has a lifter doing full pulls, then bench, then pulls from blocks. Lets say a lifter is great at lockout but weak off the floor. Would defecit pulls be subbed for pulls from blocks (both supplemental SPP movements)??
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Post by benburgess on Dec 19, 2008 11:30:46 GMT -5
Well call me a Borisnerd but i went through the online translation yesterday and tried to get a hold of what the big man reckons SPP is all about.
Here's the list:
SQUAT
SUPPLEMENTAL
Pause Sq Box Sq Fr Box Sq DE Sq Slow Sq Front Sq Wide Front Sq
DEVELOPMENTAL
Zercher Lunge Front Lunge Hack Lunge Duck Foot Sq Negative Sq Belt Sq Sq Lockouts Crouch Sq ? Sq with Chains Smith Machine Sq Leg Press Leg Extension Ham Curls Sq Jumps Depth Jumps Box Jumps Calf Raises Snatch Grip High Pulls Snatch Grip High Pulls from Boxes Seated High Pulls ? Hyperextensions/Weighted in various ways Seated GM
BENCH
SUPPLEMENTAL
Wide Grip High-touch Bench Medium Grip Bench Close Grip Bench Bench over Foam (arch) Flat Back Bench Slow Bench 3-5 sec Pause Bench Rvs Grip Bench DE Bench Negatives Lockouts Bench with Chains
DEVELOPMENTAL
Incline Bench (high touch) Decline Bench (low touch) Incline OHP OHP Behind-the-neck Press Push Press Seated OHP Seated Behind-the-neck Press Alternate DB OHP Standing Alternate DB OHP Seated DB Bench Nosebreakers Pec Deck Flyes Incline Flyes Weighted Dips Weighted Pushups Wide Grip Weighted Pushups Bench Dips Pushdowns Curls
DEADLIFT
SUPPLEMENTAL
Defecit DL Pulls to Knees Pause Pulls to Knees Pulls to Knees + finish Pulls to Knees + Mid Thigh (2 Stops) Pulls from Boxes + Slow Eccentric Pulls from Boxes (BTK) DL Lockouts Pulls from High Boxes (ATK) Snatch Grip Pulls from Boxes
DEVELOPMENTAL
Snatch Grip Pulls Pulls with Chains High Pulls Shrugs Belt Sqs Seated Pulls ? GM’s Stiff Leg GM’s Seated GM’s Hyperextensions/Weighted Hypers Roman Chair Situp Decline Situp Leg Raises
This aint gospel lads and lasses cos some of them words in the book come out of the translator right funny, but I reckon I worked out most of 'em. The ones with a ? are pure stabs in the dark though.
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Post by benburgess on Dec 19, 2008 11:13:38 GMT -5
Dave is right on the money here. Conditioning is the key and this is where GPP and SPP make ALL THE DIFFERENCE. I take probably 60 minutes and explain all of this on the St. Louis seminar DVD. The thing is a gold mine as far as Sheiko training tips and explanations is concerned. Thats something new ive learnt today then. This forum is turning out to be really useful!
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Post by benburgess on Dec 18, 2008 16:56:54 GMT -5
That being the case- what would you think of the following combination: 37 raw then 29, 30 and 32 equipped? I also feel that the % in 37 & 32 are too low for me for bench. I used a loose shirt- but loose enough to touch 70% is so loose that it has almost no relationship to a comp shirt in terms of technical preparation. As far as it goes I rate it...I like the squat and bench reps at 90% in the #30 because it gives you a) a feel of the weight on the back for squat and b) its a weight you can touch in your shirt. Because they're for 3 singles, you're not blowing your brainz out with volume at high %'ages too. Thing is, arn't you an MS? If i was as strong as that i'd be running the cycles for higher rated lifters i suppose.
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Post by benburgess on Dec 18, 2008 16:51:19 GMT -5
I agree with Stephen that shirted boards with (say) 80% of your equipped max are a hell of a different proposition to a raw board with 80% of your equipped I cant see anyone getting much training effect from 80% equipped to a board.
If anything, a shirted board should be 100% +
Just to get this straight in my head, Steve, your gonna run the full #31 equipped into the #32, or just the day 1 bench %'ages of the #31, with the rest of the stuff from the #37???
I've run the #31 into the #32 (equipped) and it worked pretty good for me. #31 is a brutal cycle, esp the giant sets, but you're a much higher rating than me so maybe you'll find it easier.
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Post by benburgess on Dec 15, 2008 14:48:06 GMT -5
Actually we found out later that 29-32 are designed to work together but it really beats you down. #37 is a more balanced program (for lack of a better term). You can do #32 after #37 and expect to have some success. A combination that has worked fairly well for some lifters without equipment is #29, #37 and #32. The 5 week rated comp cycle is something I came up with for myself many years ago. Being a older lifter, I'm not able to recover as well as my younger counter parts. This served me well for a while until I got in better condition. I have not tested many lifters on the 5 week comp cycle using equipment. I always felt the 4 week one would be better. You guys will half to try it out and give me feedback on which one is better for lifters. For unequipped, I like the 4 week comp cycle ( #32 ) perhaps for the equipped it should be the 5 week rated lifter one? Let me know... This is some gold information this is. My comments would be these: Personally, I would feel a bit uneasy going into the #32 from the #37 equipped because of the lack of high %'age work at the end of the #37...going from 75 and 80% of your equipped sq max right into 100% the bar is gonna feel like a shit-ton on your back. Maybe thats just me. Its true though that #30 and #31 are tough cycles, i think 31 is the toughest ive ever run. I have run #29-->#31-->#32 and had a pretty good meet off it but my work capacity and recovery is pretty bullit, and I often feel like i could do more volume in the gym. I was surprised at how hard work the #32 was for a peaking/deloading cycle, its actually a pretty tough cycle in the 2nd week. However when I ran the 5 Week Comp cycle equipped I felt a bit under-trained come meet time and I felt just right after the #32 so for me the #32 was better, but I know Joel feels better off the 5 Wk Comp. Again I think this probably has something to do with my work capacity. Dave you will maybe agree that the Sheiko cycles generally are very much affected by work and recovery capacity? In fact my 1st few (2 or 3) 4 wk cycles I got little gains from at all because the volume was such a shock to my body but the cycles seem to work better for you as your work capacity improves.
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Post by benburgess on Dec 15, 2008 14:32:20 GMT -5
Is the general rule- don't add things, but you can substitute bench SPP for another SPP and so forth?Dave might be better placed to answer this. I know there is a list of SPP excersises in Sheiko's book. I would guess that picking the movements from this list that best hit your weaknesses is the way forward. I hear what you are saying- however I still find I am getting plenty from 5 or 6 sets of triples at 80 or 85 with straps up. My main concern is that with this approach with 32, for eg, you pretty much only get 3-4 squats in with your straps up for the whole cycle. I feel like learning the full equipped groove is such an important part of what makes this work.The issue with Sheiko and gear very much depends on this aspect - how comforatble/good you are in your gear. Do you use your box squat in the place of the second squat in a session- how do you adjust the %?I have used it as both a primary and secondary squat movement but never eliminated full raw squats. In an equipped cycle i will do box sqs, raw sqs AND eqp sqs. I wouldnt adjust the %'age at all, just base it off your max box sq instead of your max raw sq. For me theres only about 10kg difference anyway.
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Post by benburgess on Dec 15, 2008 14:18:01 GMT -5
Hey Everyone. When you are viewing the threads, do any of you see in the upper righthand corner the icon "new thread"? It should be between "mark as read" and "new poll". If you do see it then if you click on it that is how you can begin a new thread. If you guys cannot see it, please let me know and we will get that fixed ASAP. Eric I can see it now, but couldnt before. Thanks mods.
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Post by benburgess on Dec 15, 2008 14:13:48 GMT -5
I've managed to secure the use of a looser squat suit, now just have to work on the bench shirt. I've had a scroll through the programme and noticed the vaste majority of the work is 75-80%. Except for the skills evaluation in week 9 the % only goes to 85% once and twice for bench and squat respectively. I assume this would be the best time to use my tighter gear? And which athlete logs should I look at? Dave maybe i can chip in here, i'm no elite lifter but i have run quite a few sheiko cycles with equipment. What i would do is use a board and lift raw for weights you cant touch. If you are going to be any good in a shirt you are going to have to be able to lock out your shirted max off a board height that is approximately one-third to halfway through your stroke (i.e where the shirt stops helping) without the shirt. Dave B is right with regards to touching a light weight, let the collar ride high and dont belt the shirt, tuck your elbows at the bottom and you will be able to touch a lot lighter weights. If you dont have a loose shirt, what i would do is run Dave's 13wk program, and where it says 'bench shirt' and the %'age is <84%, use a 4" or 6" board (depending how long your arms are) and base the load off your shirted max but dont wear a shirt. Where the program says 'bench shirt' and the %'age is >84% (i.e. 85 - 100%) wear the shirt. If you cant touch 85% in your shirt try the techniques above and also use a low board e.g 2". If you cant touch 90% then your in trouble anyway, cos what are you gonna open with!! In terms of equipped Sheiko logs, the one to look out for is one of the most sucessful Sheiko users and a brilliant lifter - Wade Hooper. He films all his sessions in the run up to a big meet and puts them on YouTube. He doesnt film all the assistance work but you can get a good idea of what he's doing. He does a lot of floor press and bench with chains for his shirted bench but id stick with a basic 1/3-1/2 ROM board press for now especially as you are new to equipment. Having said ALL that, if you are really new to gear having time learning the shirt and the technique needed is really invaluable, so try and get a loose shirt too. If you do, id use raw boards up to 70-75%, the loose shirt for stuff at 80% and the tight one for 85+ I hope this helps
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Post by benburgess on Dec 13, 2008 5:41:21 GMT -5
Hi Ben, First and foremost thank you for the feedback! It's what this forum is all about. No problem mate, I hope some others will join in with their experiences too...we're all learning constantly, right? I'm not the strongest or cleverest guy in the world but i do pay close attention to how my programming affects my meet results! I'm not sure about the whole thread thing. This is all new to me. On most forums any user can create a new thread. My guess is that here only moderators can create new threads. This will keep the overall board neat but it might mean that individual threads get very long with people adding things in existing threads rather than creating new ones for each new question. Its good to have you participating in such a resource either way Dave.I have no problem sharing other programs with you just email me on what your looking for. I have some programs that go 6 days a week with training twice a day. These are for a MSIC I'll email you about that then. I was an MSIC last night, then I woke up and it was all a dream! Im just a rated lifter nearing CMS.It has been my experience with lifters, that if we ease them into basic programs they are more likely to complete the program. The 13 week equipment program is a starting point for people who have decided to try to use equipment in a meet. As you know, equipment lifting is a whole different world. The idea is to have the lifter work in their equipment at 70% and above. The 70% lifts and above would be based off of their equipped max not their raw max. Most lifters use their equipment one day a week. Most guys have training equipment and tighter meet equipment. Some guys use their equipment every session it depends on the lifter. I agree, im sure the 13wk program would work great.I think the board work can be worked into the program pretty easily. It depends on the lifters ability to recover. Everyone is different. I think a good balance is one shirt day, one board day and one full rom raw day (this is assuming 3 day/wk training).
With regards to the post by spsfw above, between me and Joel we have a few of the 4 and 5 wk cycles in quite neat excel speadsheets that round the weights etc. If you would like us to send them so you can share them on the forum just let us know, id say we have: *37 *37 modified (more bench intensity) *29 *30 *31 *32 *5 Week Comp Cycle
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