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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2009 15:57:58 GMT -5
Dave I am doing your 13 week equiped cycle and have been reading alot of information on this site and elsewhere and I have seen many people have great results with the squat and deadlift, but the bench lacks a little when it comes to shirted benching. I know alot of shirted benching is the lockout and I was thinking about throwing in raw board work and pin lockouts on the days I dont shirt bench, and keeping the pyramid bench full rom benching. My thoughts are with the boards (2,3,4) you will be able to work with heavier weight in the 80-85% range and build more strength in the lockout part of your bench where I feel I need it. What are your thoughts. Anyone else feel free to give opiinions or advice.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2009 22:38:40 GMT -5
I am currently doing #29 and have substituted raw 3-boards in place of bench on Mondays. I have based the numbers off my shirted max in training (280kg) so I am using 230kg for 5-7 sets of 3 at 80%(230) most mondays. This weight corresponds to well to 80% of full ROM raw bench in terms of rate of percieved exertion (RPE). I chose 3-boards because my problem area is about an inch above 3-board height. My next comp is still 12 weeks away so I am not using the shirt at all this cycle, but will add it in on Fridays in the next two prep cycles. I will also leave in the 3-board and do full ROM raw pyramids on wednesdays. This is an experiment so the results will be available in 12 weeks time (sorry).
Last comp I relied totally on full rom raw two days a week and shirted once a week. The shirted work felt more like technique development rather than strength building which is why I have included 3-boards this time around.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2009 9:50:19 GMT -5
Thanks for the response (big bear) I hear you when you say the shirt work feels more like technique work.
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Post by benburgess on Jan 5, 2009 13:56:05 GMT -5
Here we go.... Great topic The Wall, I think this is the most difficult and frustrating issue to solve when trying to work equipment into Sheiko cycles. I wish I could say "you definately need to do this" becuase that would mean that I also knew the answer, and my shirt bench would be going up instead of falling out my backside. I can tell you a couple of things I have tried that did NOT work for me: 1. Theres a translated email floating about the net somewhere that Boris Sheiko wrote...in it he says he has his guys work raw 90% of the time, and they just throw their shirts on the last couple of weeks. I was surprised by this but tried it anyway. No gain over a 12wk cycle, though my raw bench went up about 15kg. 2. I benched best when I used to follow the Metal Militia bench routine. I tried mixing this in with the Sheiko stuff, i.e. did the Sheiko Sq/DL work and the MM stuff for bench (generally working up to a 3rm on boards, lockouts, CGB etc.). No gain over a 12wk cycle. Its hard to find out much about good shirted benchers who use Sheiko. Wade is one example, as far as I know he does something like the following movements, maybe Joel could chip in he is a right HooperTrainingBoffin: - Shirt bench, not traditional Sheiko %'ages, instead 90% x 3 x 1 - Raw paused bench with usual Sheiko %'ages (pyramid?) - Floor press with usual Sheiko %'ages - Raw Bench with chains...i dont know how the %'ages are set up I got an email today with Andrey Belayevs training on it. I can tell you that from what I read he does about 75% full ROM benching (hard to tell what is based off his raw max and what is off his shirt max) and 25% benching off boards. His board %'ages are around 95-100%. I dont know what thats based off, could be his full ROM raw max? It is probably worth mentioning that both those lifters (especially Belayev) are complete circus freaks and must be at least MSIC, more likely Honorable Master of Sport (Eric could maybe confirm?) so applying their training to mere mortals might not work.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2009 14:31:46 GMT -5
Thanks (benburgess)for the info, look forward to see some of the Andrey Belayevs training stuff. I have also been thinking of doing reverse band work raw since you can work full rom and get the heavy weight towards lockout. I know when I did reverse green bands my last cycle I could do the same weight I could do in a shirt. I guess I am going to have to give something a shot and post my results. I will feel things out this next coming 8 weeks before my competition and hopefully head in the right direction. I will keep posted with progress.
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Post by benburgess on Jan 5, 2009 15:07:12 GMT -5
Thanks (benburgess)for the info, look forward to see some of the Andrey Belayevs training stuff. I have also been thinking of doing reverse band work raw since you can work full rom and get the heavy weight towards lockout. I know when I did reverse green bands my last cycle I could do the same weight I could do in a shirt. No worries shame its not that useful. How do you set up the bands? I tried the rvs bands (green ironwoodys...i think these are a different tension to green jumpstretch) choked over the top of the power rack. For me I could rep more (even with a close grip) than i have ever shirt benched. They didnt seem to carry over great for me which is annoying as they seem to mimic the way the shirt works very well. I don't know if i were using too much tension. Do you set yours up so they are literally dangling loose for the top few inches or is there some tension left?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2009 19:08:38 GMT -5
I use the green jump stretch bands, they are a little worn. I choke them at the top and basically they give no support at the top so they dangle a tad, I am locking out the weight I load on the bar.
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Post by joeldibattista on Jan 5, 2009 23:08:29 GMT -5
Something I've done with success in the past, bench exercise wise, is copying what I've seen from Wade Hooper's videos, being:-
Day 1 - Bench with chains Day 2 - Raw bench pyramid Day 3 - Bench in shirt
And then gone off boards or done lockouts when there is a fourth bench exercise that week.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2009 10:34:30 GMT -5
If I were to do 6" lockouts or pin presses what percent of my shirted max should I use, should I stick with the 80-85% range or go a little higher since it is such a short range of motion thanks
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Post by benburgess on Jan 10, 2009 19:30:10 GMT -5
If I were to do 6" lockouts or pin presses what percent of my shirted max should I use, should I stick with the 80-85% range or go a little higher since it is such a short range of motion thanks What I tried the other day (on the advice of someone on here, i think it was bigbear) was 6" lockouts using the %'ages prescribed for the bench work in the prep cycle, based on my shirted max. So it was 6 triples at 80% of my shirt max or something similar. I did them close grip and it seemed to be a pretty perfect training weight. The exact amount of ROM you should use would depend on your arm length eh?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2009 17:05:17 GMT -5
I tried the lockouts with the percentages prescribed in the cycle based off my shirted max at first it was way too easy so I just lowered the pins a little bit about another 2-3" and that seemed to work good. Thanks for the info.
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