Mixed Results with 12 Week Equipped Cycle

[Deleted]

Hi. I finished running the 12 week Reduced Volume Equipment Cycle. My Squat and Bench Press improved, but my Deadlift and Total fell.

Here is a link to the detailed results from my Training Journal:

forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=491226991&postcount=1910

Any feedback will be appreciated. Thank you.

[michael]

hey smitsky, sorry to hear about ur troubles. I ran 2 12 week reduced back to back and i also had some difficulties in the dead as i am a natural puller. I am a cms rated lifter, as i started with a 1275 raw total a@165. After the first block I moved to 13 week block but by weeks 3 I was fallimg behind. So i went back to 12 week with adjusted #s. I cut my sqyat %s a little, upped the bench a little and cut the deads as well. I competed in the WNPF in early may and went420-290-590 for my first 1300 raw @165. My squat was off the charts, the bench is getting better but the dead needs some help. I am just starting another 12 week using 400-290-570 as my maxes, upping my tri work in place of lockouts and cutting the pulls to kness altogether. Hope this helps.

[Deleted]

Thanks Michael. Glad to hear that I'm not the only one with Deadlift issues ;D You have some good numbers there! The WNPF is a great Fed. I started with them and did their Worlds in 2007 in Atlanta.

I had to drop my Deadlifts down for a week or two due to back spasms. I may have to do my own programming, as I think even the 12 week cycle is too much for my CNS to recover from altogether.

Yes, I may cut the pulls to the knees too. Good idea.

Thanks again.

[benburgess]

Seems to me this is the only cycle you ever hear about where people do not gain on every lift. What's wierd is that is has WAY less volume than a typical cycle but you guys are reporting that you find the volume too high even still?

Do you guys do any GPP work at all? Would you assess your overall athleticism and recovery as high?

[Deleted]

May 17, 2010 8:04:12 GMT -5 benburgess said:

Seems to me this is the only cycle you ever hear about where people do not gain on every lift. What's wierd is that is has WAY less volume than a typical cycle but you guys are reporting that you find the volume too high even still?

Do you guys do any GPP work at all? Would you assess your overall athleticism and recovery as high?

Thanks for the reply.

This is the first time I have ever done a full prep cycle. Therefore it is the first time I have ever done (2) back to back prep cycles and a comp cycle.

The overall combined volume was unreal. I can't even imagine what doing a full #29, followed by a full #37, followed by a full #32 would be like, personally. Squatting 2x/wk and Deadlifting once a week was definitely very taxing (let alone benching 3x/wk in addition to this). I was spending 3 hours in the gym each session at a minimum.

I think my recovery is fine. Was if fine on this cycle? I kept getting sick. My libido was low. I definitely felt overtrained. No, it was definitely compromised.

I did GPP twice a week on most weeks. I ran the city streets of NYC for 20 minutes to a half an hour each session. My GPP is not terrible. I think it's fairly good. Could it be better? Yes.

...

[michael]

May 17, 2010 8:04:12 GMT -5 benburgess said:

Seems to me this is the only cycle you ever hear about where people do not gain on every lift. What's wierd is that is has WAY less volume than a typical cycle but you guys are reporting that you find the volume too high even still?

Do you guys do any GPP work at all? Would you assess your overall athleticism and recovery as high?

Like I stated before, the only time I had trouble with sheiko is when I went to the 13 week block. On the 12 week i seem to do fine. I back of the squat a bit as I am not biult to squat. The bench I need a little more and the dead I think is more exercise selection. I am a puller and anything I do makes my pull go up usually. It just seems I have always needed a full range dead every week. I had the same experience on westside when I would squat, dead, good morning and rotate.

[michael]

Also I usaul hit 40 sets in 90 minutes or so. So I figure my gpp must be fairly good seeing as it is only my 3rd block of sheiko.

[Deleted]

May 17, 2010 22:24:18 GMT -5 michael said:

...
Like I stated before, the only time I had trouble with sheiko is when I went to the 13 week block. On the 12 week i seem to do fine. I back of the squat a bit as I am not biult to squat. The bench I need a little more and the dead I think is more exercise selection. I am a puller and anything I do makes my pull go up usually. It just seems I have always needed a full range dead every week. I had the same experience on westside when I would squat, dead, good morning and rotate.

...

I am a puller as well Michael, and not built to Squat either. I have pulled 441 (at 183) in competition this past December at the USAPL Rhode Island States, and had the crowd roaring as I just missed locking out 457 by sheer centimeters.

Competely missing a 420 lb Opener has me pretty astonished

[Deleted]

May 17, 2010 22:26:05 GMT -5 michael said:

Also I usaul hit 40 sets in 90 minutes or so. So I figure my gpp must be fairly good seeing as it is only my 3rd block of sheiko.

I attend a commercial gym where I have to set up each piece of equipment, station, etc. I have a good warmup period, and have to pack my stuff up and get ready to leave the facility. The time that I'm spending on the exercises themselves could be near 90-120 minutes (out of the 180 minutes stated), and I'm sure my level of GPP could support me rushing like a madman throughout the gym to complete each scheduled workout in 90 minutes or less...

[joeldibattista]

Overall volume needs to be increased over time. I have run many, many prep cycles now and I am still not running the full volume as written by Sheiko.

You are not quite a level 3 rated lifter, so the reduced volume plan is probably your best bet - squat and bench gains are pretty typical.

Perhaps you could try the squat and bench from the reduced volume plan and the deadlift from the full volume plan? It might be your pull responds to more volume.

[joeldibattista]

May 16, 2010 21:35:28 GMT -5 @smitsky said:

I had to drop my Deadlifts down for a week or two due to back spasms. I may have to do my own programming, as I think even the 12 week cycle is too much for my CNS to recover from altogether.

I've just read this. So do you think your pull was down because you were "overtrained"?

Did you cut the deadlift volume before or after the skills evaluation where you pulled 420 easily? Perhaps you were undertrained in the deadlift?

I have found several times approaching a meet that I get worried about how fatigued I am and start backing off too early only to come in underdone.

Remember, fatigue accumulation in the right amount is your friend - it is the supercompensation from this that yeilds the strength gains.

[benburgess]

Wise words from a fat man.

The symptoms you describe smitsky are very typical of sheiko training in my experinece and I know in joel's too.

Really beating yourself down and feeling like you ate going backward/getting weaker/overtraining is almost always an indicator that you will pb at your meet in my experience. Sheiko training is all about fatigue accumulation so if weights that should be easy feel hard mid-cycle that's ok.

I agree with JDB - I would guess your pull was actually undercooked

[Deleted]

May 18, 2010 21:51:33 GMT -5 joeldibattista said:

Overall volume needs to be increased over time. I have run many, many prep cycles now and I am still not running the full volume as written by Sheiko.

You are not quite a level 3 rated lifter, so the reduced volume plan is probably your best bet - squat and bench gains are pretty typical.

Perhaps you could try the squat and bench from the reduced volume plan and the deadlift from the full volume plan? It might be your pull responds to more volume.

Yes! I couldn't agree more (from what little I have learned). I have always approached Sheiko training very respectfully - I know it's power to both increase one's strength and beat you into the ground! I have always pieced parts of the basic program together, in the hope that I would be able to gain and not get beat too badly up.

That being said, I will state that I feel that I wasn't ready to try to run this full program. I tried anyway, and am happy about the learning experience.

Yes, I know that I'm on the edge of being a 3 rated lifter.

I think my pull got stuck between the getting beat up scenario

[Deleted]

May 18, 2010 21:54:40 GMT -5 joeldibattista said:

May 16, 2010 21:35:28 GMT -5 @smitsky said:

I had to drop my Deadlifts down for a week or two due to back spasms. I may have to do my own programming, as I think even the 12 week cycle is too much for my CNS to recover from altogether.

I've just read this. So do you think your pull was down because you were "overtrained"?

Did you cut the deadlift volume before or after the skills evaluation where you pulled 420 easily? Perhaps you were undertrained in the deadlift?

I have found several times approaching a meet that I get worried about how fatigued I am and start backing off too early only to come in underdone.

Remember, fatigue accumulation in the right amount is your friend - it is the supercompensation from this that yeilds the strength gains.

I will be honest about this: I am not sure exactly what happened to my pull that day.

Some possibilities:

1.) I have never maxed out in the gym. Friends were there and getting restless, and my experienced training partner thought that I would have gotten more rest prior to the Deadlift event at a typical meet.

2.) The same training partner, who always helps and corrects form issues, noticed that I had changed my pulling stance. Rich Sadiv recently commented that I was too narrow. I tried to widen (during this cycle). My training partner thinks I widened too much.

To go on: I had to cut the intensity for one session, late in the prep cycles. Perhaps Week 7? I could check my Log. Actually, now that I'm thinking about it, I had to cut a few Deadlift sessions due to back spasms even prior to that!! ...Hmmmmm.

Ok: Underdone is a big possibility.

Yes, I understand basically what is going on with fatigue and resulting Supercompensation. Thanks for elaborating!

[Deleted]

Skills Evaluation went well on all fronts.

Squat: 300 flew up (took a step before rack command).

Bench Press: 275 explosively flew up.

Deadlift: 420 felt a bit heavy, but not a warrning sign yet I felt.

[Deleted]

May 19, 2010 6:36:51 GMT -5 benburgess said:

Wise words from a fat man.

The symptoms you describe smitsky are very typical of sheiko training in my experinece and I know in joel's too.

Really beating yourself down and feeling like you ate going backward/getting weaker/overtraining is almost always an indicator that you will pb at your meet in my experience. Sheiko training is all about fatigue accumulation so if weights that should be easy feel hard mid-cycle that's ok.

I agree with JDB - I would guess your pull was actually undercooked

Is he fat? I can't tell ;D

Yup, I'm sure the symptoms are typical. Thanks!

Ok, very good to know this. Thanks again.

I agree with undercooked.