Deadlifts..

[Deleted]

Right, had my last deadlift session on sheiko 29 today, was not really happy.

My deadlift seems to be incredibly slow off the floor, locking out I'm fine with, but the initial movement is very slow. When I'm at the second rep, it speeds up a bit

I don't think sheiko is doing enough for my deadlifts. I had these doubts the last sheiko cycle I ran (the 13 week beginner cycle), but I ended with a 10kg gain on the deadlift, so obviously it is working

Is there any exercise's I can change / mix anything up to improve speed from the floor? I know deadlifts to knees is geared for that, but is there anything else?

Heres a video of my deadlifting, if anyone can pinpoint my main weaknesses:






I also remember reading ben suggesting resistance bands? Anyone have any advice on these, and how would they be implemented?


Sorry to be a pain, but the session was very off putting today, perhaps it was just an off-day, but to sum up, I'm not fond of the current deadlift routine as I don't think its hitting my weaknesses enough.

I'm running sheiko 29/37/32


Thanks

[Deleted]

Looking at your video I would say the issue is that you are rushing your setup, the first thing
to happen on the ascent is your hips rise making the lift almost all back, which could be why
slow off the floor and faster above knees where the back is in a better leverage position.
Work on setting up tighter at bottom, that will allow more leg drive.
I don't think the program needs to change

[benburgess]

No bands for you. Bands = training the lockout.

Matey, if i'd just hit a 10kg PB after 13wks of training i would not be looking at changing things programming wise.

Having said that i agree with the post above I think you will benefit from refining your technique.

You need to keep your chest and head up better. Dont think about pulling the bar up, concentrate on pushing your feet into the floor. If do that while keeping your head and chest up you will use more legs and less back to get the bar moving.

What %'age of your max was that weight?

[Deleted]

Mar 21, 2010 18:24:19 GMT -5 @macmad said:

Looking at your video I would say the issue is that you are rushing your setup, the first thing
to happen on the ascent is your hips rise making the lift almost all back, which could be why
slow off the floor and faster above knees where the back is in a better leverage position.
Work on setting up tighter at bottom, that will allow more leg drive.
I don't think the program needs to change

Totally agree with this post. You got to get real tight at the start. Pretend you are squatting except the bar is in your hands and not on your back..

[michael]

I'm not so sure about this one. I pull 600@165 and I naturally pull rounded back, hips high and no leg drive. I am on my second block of sheiko and I too am wondering if pulls to knees are effective. My speed has slowed as well and on may 1st I will know exactly where my pull is at. I am a dive bomb puller and I have always been quick off the floor. My gains have come from pulling every week. I understand that the accepted dead form is leg drive, chest out, head up but I have gone against this ever since I was pulling 500 in my first meet 12 years ago. just my opinion but i will certainly let you know what the 12 week did to my deadlift.

[Deleted]

Mar 23, 2010 12:47:49 GMT -5 michael said:

I'm not so sure about this one. I pull 600@165 and I naturally pull rounded back, hips high and no leg drive. I am on my second block of sheiko and I too am wondering if pulls to knees are effective. My speed has slowed as well and on may 1st I will know exactly where my pull is at. I am a dive bomb puller and I have always been quick off the floor. My gains have come from pulling every week. I understand that the accepted dead form is leg drive, chest out, head up but I have gone against this ever since I was pulling 500 in my first meet 12 years ago. just my opinion but i will certainly let you know what the 12 week did to my deadlift.

Your Deadlift is very good weight/bw wise and you could be one of those rare individuals were a technique you discribe has allowed you to get to that level without major injury but I think your progress will get to a stage were it will stop or injury will stop your progress.
Dont take this the wrong way but if I had to guess I would say your squat would be around 150 lbs less than your deadlift because your body leverages probably favour a big deadlift.
Again dont take it the wrong way, I mean no offence, but most powerlifters would benefit from utilising as much leg power as possible to deadlift real big and avoid injuring their backs.

[michael]

I agree, I also feel I was born to pull. That is why I suggested to not be too hasty. If I had listened to everyone else about my deadlift form I doubt I would have reached my current level. I have made slow steady progress every year ever since I started. I do feel more people could benefit from deviating a little from conventional wisdom is all. I tried using leg drive last year but I immediatley had pain on my inner knee, When I stopped the pain stopped. I probably could try it again and work my way up over a year or 2 but I am sticking to "if it ain't broke don't fix it approach". I just hit a 410 raw squat and I feel that sheiko will improve that greatly. So yes I am like most lifters with a 200lb difference between my squat and pull. But that is quite common to squat 900 and pull 700 or pull 700 and squat 500. You never know until you try.

[Deleted]

Mar 24, 2010 10:37:43 GMT -5 michael said:

I agree, I also feel I was born to pull. That is why I suggested to not be too hasty. If I had listened to everyone else about my deadlift form I doubt I would have reached my current level. I have made slow steady progress every year ever since I started. I do feel more people could benefit from deviating a little from conventional wisdom is all. I tried using leg drive last year but I immediatley had pain on my inner knee, When I stopped the pain stopped. I probably could try it again and work my way up over a year or 2 but I am sticking to "if it ain't broke don't fix it approach". I just hit a 410 raw squat and I feel that sheiko will improve that greatly. So yes I am like most lifters with a 200lb difference between my squat and pull. But that is quite common to squat 900 and pull 700 or pull 700 and squat 500. You never know until you try.

Squat 900 and pull 700 is only common in non IPF organizations due to high squats being passed. In the IPF the best lifters are squatting and deadlifting almost the same weights ie: Ivan Fredyn 100kg Champ 380 squat, 377.5 deadlift. Generally newer lifters deadlift alot more than they squat until their biomechanics and strength builds to squat closer to or equal to their deadlift. The reason for this initial imbalance is during normal everyday activities people are bending over and picking stuff up but they don't squat anything. So train those squats hard Mike and Im sure your deadlift will gain some more too.

[benburgess]

Mar 23, 2010 12:47:49 GMT -5 michael said:

I'm not so sure about this one. I pull 600@165 and I naturally pull rounded back, hips high and no leg drive. I am on my second block of sheiko and I too am wondering if pulls to knees are effective. My speed has slowed as well and on may 1st I will know exactly where my pull is at. I am a dive bomb puller and I have always been quick off the floor. My gains have come from pulling every week. I understand that the accepted dead form is leg drive, chest out, head up but I have gone against this ever since I was pulling 500 in my first meet 12 years ago. just my opinion but i will certainly let you know what the 12 week did to my deadlift.

So you've put 100lbs on your pull in 12 years?

I dont want to sound like a dick but maybe if you'd have worked with the 'accepted dead form' you might have gained more than 8lbs a year.

[michael]

The meager gains are attributed to starting out at a higher level. If you check the raw rankings you will be hard pressed to find many 165's deadlifting in the 600 range.

[benburgess]

Thats my point. You pulled a pretty good deadlift in your 1st meet, so you are obviously naturally built for pulling.

However, since then you have gained very little. That suggests that your technique and/or programming is not as great as your levers.

I dont think many people will benefit from round back high hips no leg drive.

[michael]

When I tried using leg drive last year I suffered from inner knee pain and that was just with weights in the 300-360 range. When I resumed my old form it immediately went away. My first 2 thoughts were structure(ie. knock knees) or the discrepency in weight with dead to squat. However since starting sheiko I have handled 300-350 in squat with regularity and have had no knee pain. Would you risk rebooting an elite dead and retrain for a year or more to see if there were bigger gains to be had? Keep in mind I have always made small gains every year in my dead and this was before sheiko, with westside and recently 531 methods. What are your thoughts?

[Deleted]

Mar 25, 2010 18:23:12 GMT -5 michael said:

When I tried using leg drive last year I suffered from inner knee pain and that was just with weights in the 300-360 range. When I resumed my old form it immediately went away. My first 2 thoughts were structure(ie. knock knees) or the discrepency in weight with dead to squat. However since starting sheiko I have handled 300-350 in squat with regularity and have had no knee pain. Would you risk rebooting an elite dead and retrain for a year or more to see if there were bigger gains to be had? Keep in mind I have always made small gains every year in my dead and this was before sheiko, with westside and recently 531 methods. What are your thoughts?

Depends what you want out of your lifting but Powerlifting is 3 lifts and having only 1 really good lift just won't cut it. If I was you I would hammer the squats and get good form on the deadlift and the squatting will give you all the leg strength you need to get back up and most likely pass your current deadlift PR.

[benburgess]

Mar 25, 2010 18:23:12 GMT -5 michael said:

When I tried using leg drive last year I suffered from inner knee pain and that was just with weights in the 300-360 range. When I resumed my old form it immediately went away. My first 2 thoughts were structure(ie. knock knees) or the discrepency in weight with dead to squat. However since starting sheiko I have handled 300-350 in squat with regularity and have had no knee pain. Would you risk rebooting an elite dead and retrain for a year or more to see if there were bigger gains to be had? Keep in mind I have always made small gains every year in my dead and this was before sheiko, with westside and recently 531 methods. What are your thoughts?

Again, don't take this the wrong way but my thoughts are 'whatever'! You have a pretty decent pull & you seem happy with it so more power to you. If you have found what works for you then great.

But the original point in this thread was a relatively new lifter asking about DL form
etc. & I don't want him to take from all this that round back high hips no leg drive = big pull because for the huge majority of lifters it doesn't, it just = back pain