Thank you for the link, but what I am talking about is the 4 week transition cycle that is not found on that site, usually eric does this transition cycle after maxing out as a type of deload/transitioning phase before jumping straight into another set of prep. cycles, I was wondering if you or Eric can post up an example template for a rated lifter and a cms lifter to clarify on how it looks like.
Greetings... I'm his coach. we do not do that. If anything we take a few days off. (meet on Saturday, start back on Wednesday)That day start off working up to 70% based off the new maxes. Then the following week start back up again as normal..
I pretty sure 29/37/32 is basically what Dave's 13 week program is. I'm not expert, but if you made gains, why not take a week deload and start it all over again. If it works, stick with it. That's what I plan on doing. Congrats on the PBs too!
Yeh I know Daves was based off that, but I didn't feel my deadlift's progressed greatly from it, so i'd like to see how 29/37/32 fairs.. Give it a go, it's a great combo!
i´m no expert but i would probably not test, just set a conservative " working " max for the first 4 weeks
I agree with john on this one. There is a reduced volume program up on this board that is made for that very reason. Look around it's on here. Pick low maxes say 30% off your best? Run the program, retest your maxes or pick some numbers closer to your original maxes. Once your in "better condition" you can go off and do different programs.
I was only using 135-155 on GM but the arthritis in my L5 causes me to redline sometimes. Hmmm bummer..
I have managed it well and I am not too concerned with it. Made it to 600 without GM. I did not pause the reps on pulls to knees, is that what I should be doing? Well, kind of, I just want to make sure you reset between reps, your hands can still be on the bar. it you can, video your reps and send them to me.
If it is too much (low back burn/fatigue) I was thinking of concentrating on pulls from floor or rack pulls, what are your thoughts? Try it and see. Let everyone know your findings and results please.
I am subbing direct tri work for dips, my collarbone feels a bit better too. Good keep us posted and what you did and the results of your efforts.
Thank you again for your time. No worries..
I will shut up now , finish the 13weeks and report back May 2nd!
Do you mean reduce the the calculated max on, say, the DL and keep the percentage and number of lifts as written in the program (37)? Yes.. I think your upper body will be ok because the muscle groups are small.
By how much would you reduce it? 10-15%? maybe even 20%? Your going to half to go by feel here, I would start with 10% and go from there. I think I would try to reduce the deadlift max first and see how my body reacts.
...if you where in the situation where you´d have to train two days in a row, at least most weeks? The benching is not my main concern, i´m worried about the SQ/DL. I´m thinking either leaving out the deadlift or seriously reducing the volume of it.
I would reduce the max of one of the lifts. This way you still train the motion. Plan "B" could be, reduce the max for the squat on the first session, do the deadlift session as planned, use the correct max for the final squat session of the week.
Ok here it goes. I just finished my final week of the 12 week reduced volume cycle and the results are in. I gained 5 lbs of bw and went from 168-173. I fasted for 24hrs and weighed in at 168 then recon. for 24hrs back to 173lbs.
gym tested maxes before cycle: 380-270-540? stopped dead at 500
Squat: 345-370-410(pr) Ok that was a 7% increase there..
Bench: 250-265-280 3% there.. not bad either..
Dead: 500-530-560 1245 total If you started with 540, 560 isn't bad either 3% increase.
First off I was clear, calm and focused but not amped up. All lifts were very work like. The squats were all strong and the 410 was the most weight I have ever squatted. It was the toughest attempt with a little knee buckle but good. I wanted more but was happy considering I used 360 as the calculated max to be safe. I enjoyed squatting the most of all lifts on this program. Form feels more confident doing doubles and triples. Good, use 410 as a max next time around.
I was hoping for more in the bench considering I was benching everyday. The 280 was ok, no real sticking point. Several years ago I hit 310 and I have been trying to get back over three since. The flyes get a bit mind numbing but I did get some pec carryover. I feel I had a little more but not much. The benck locks from my sticking point are 4 inches off my chest and hit my pecs not my triceps. Ok.. Pecs and lats help get the bar off your chest. perhaps go a little heavier on these movements.
Now my pet lift, the deadlift. Did not have a good feeling about the lack of pulling from the floor every week. The pulls to knees were not very pleasing, sometimes they were on other times not so much.
Also it felt like my head was going to explode staying bent over with 400+. I am a divebomb puller with all back and hams no leg drive.Hmmm so you use speed to help you?
I did not like trying to stop my pull at the knees when I train to explode thru my sticking point below knees. 560 was smooth but I felt slower off the floor once I got to 500+. Did you pause every rep on the deadlift? Do a rep, reset do a rep etc..? It makes a difference.
All in all I enjoyed the program and the only issues I found were pulling from floor more, more triceps, and higher reps on abs. Also i had to sub rev hype for gm as it was burning up the nerves in my low back. I would like some opinions as I have a meet May 1st and would like to start the 13 week cycle or rerun the 12 week with a few modifications. Thank you, Mike Hart
So make the changes you want to make, run the program again and see how you do. Nothing is perfect, it is a learning process that takes time.
Ok Dave let me know your thoughts. Since you were busy I went ahead and started the 13 week no equip cycle with current maxes of 410-280-560. I know my dead is higher but as a said before it is very difficult to duplicate a max dead in training. I have to sub for gm still or I start to get nerve flare up in low back.How much weight are you using here? It should be no more that 165lbs max I am puttimg in oh rope and ly db ext for tri instead of dips. That's fine or you can do board work using a close grip.
When my bench was over 300 I could hit 60x12x10 oh rope now 55x5x10 is tough. If you have any other ideas on this post or my last ferw please let me know. I am competing May 1st. thank you Mike Hart
I've just started the 12 week reduced vol equip cycle to lead up to state titles in April. I'm in week 3 of the program and I'm struggling with the equipped lifts already. My first thought would be, are you working off accurate maxes?
Last week I only managed 2 of the 4 doubles I was supposed to do in the squat, the bench was a no go and my raw deadlift was so bad I didn't even suit up.... It's a good call, if your not conditioned, you will not recover in time. The idea here is to take you the the very edge of over training then bring you back.
Some background: After competing in November I did my first sheiko, #29 - raw which I found quite easy. I did a quick skills assessment at the end - squat was up, bench and deadlift down but I wasn't too concerned after only 4 weeks. Hmmm this is your first mistake, you were in a prep cycle.
After Xmas I had 3 weeks off training to let some injuries heal and then started the 12 week cycle, last week I started getting flu symptoms - this happens to me whenever I take a break from training and jump straight back into a full training cycle. I think what i would have done here is taken a day and tested my maxes to see where I'm at or reduced my current maxes by 10%.
Add to this that I mostly train alone, the group I train with once a week do periodization so I am the black sheep right now, but I need to maintain alliance with some PA/IPF lifters or I have no-one to help me at comps. How you train should not matter to them. As long as they are willing to spot you.
My dilemma is this: do I adjust the suited max's down and possibly not hit any PB's for the comp? do I persevere with the current no's even if I cant complete the prescribed sets? Or do I throw my hands up and go back to westside training / periodization. I would not go back, one solution is to wear looser equipment when training by yourself or none at all. Yes, you can even use a bench shirt by yourself.
Feel free to tell me to HTFU. Its really not like me to lack drive, so I don't know whats going wrong right now. However constructive criticism will be greatly welcomed :-) hang in there...
i am getting ready to finish up with 30/31/32 and wondering what now. if all goes right my lifts will be 570 440 and 530 all raw at btw of 220. i thought about doing the low volume cycle on here or Dave or Eric could point me i the right direction. i know you guy say stay with what works but i don't think i could do this cycle over and over again. i have read some posts on here talking about different cycle Dave has had some do. please help.
Well, you could do a reduced volume program to give you a "break" while still getting some work in. You don't always need a ton of volume to make progress, the key is to find the right amount that works for you.
i did my best bench press ever yesterday in an unsanctionned Push & Pull...i weigh in at 220...i hit 555 lbs, it would be a national records in a sanctionned meet of the CPU (ipf afffiliate)...i opened my dead with 585 & i try a do or die with 700 pounds in 2nd...i pull it over the knee but i failed at lock out...i was very satisfied of the results...it gave me a 65 pounds BP PR's...
Yves Brousseau weigh in at 162 & hit a National BP records of 450lbs...in a sanctionned Meet it would be a national open records TOO!!! he is still a Junior with 21 years old...he missed a dead of 505...
So, i must repeat that at the national Contest on april 6th...10 weeks remain from today to april 6th...what'S next Mr.Bates
Here is my second BP Attempt with 525:
Thanks A LOT!
Good job, looks like you have found something that works for you.
Your welcome! Do the last ten weeks of the program you have been doing. start with week 3, it should work fine...
I still do stuff I don't like to do. I guess I should have worded it differently. I guess what I meant was if I were doing something I wasn't getting anything out of or maybe I felt something was taking away from some important part of the program I would drop it. I think this is Al's way of helping me with my ADD thing. If I have only four weeks to work on something I tend to work it a nit harder and it keeps my interest better than if I had to do something for say 16 weeks.
In another thread I mentioned a comoarrison chart. Basically, what I am thinking is I'm doing "X" routine for 4 weeks at the end of it I can choose to do "A,B or C". That kind of thinking works better for me than months and months of the same sort of thing ahead. Does that make more sense?
On another note I guess I am a bit vain. I want to look like I lift weights. It comes from years of being the skinn kid. That's one reason I like more variety in my training. As an example, here is the template Al suggested to me before my last meet. Maybe you guys can work with it and give me some ideas...
Sunday 1, Bench Press* 2. Triceps(pressing movement) 3. Good mornings 4. Pullthroughs or 45 degree back raise 5. Abs 6. Calves
*-Sheiko style percentages applied to these exercises.
The reason it was set up like this was because of my work schedul and coaching my kid's sports I am only able to train on Sat, Sun and one day during the week(Tue, Wed OR Thur).
I know this isn't truly Sheiko at all. It's more of a wave loaded thing. That is what I wanted to figure out is how can I apply the Sheiko principes to this? If it would be better I could replace Goodmornings with squats and put GMs in the roatation with pullthroughs and back raises on Sunday. And do a percentage thing with the bench press in place of the speed bench on wednesday. Any thoughts or suggestions you guys have are very welcome.
here is out of his test book: With three single training in the week of exercise we distribute in a following manner: Monday Medium Friday Squattings Press Squattings Press Thrust Press We consider that squatting it is necessary to make 2 times a week so that there would be the possibility at the beginning of week to make squattings intensive from 2[kh]-3[kh] with single lifts, and in the end of the week volumetric with the lifts from 4 to 6 times, or vice versa. [Zhimovye] exercises we carry out during each training because muscle of hands and upper shoulder girdle they manage to be restored. Since athletes dischargers in state to the already determine its maximum results in the competing exercises, the dosage of load is written in the percentages. With writing of plan for the dischargers this version is best, because in the group the athletes of different discharges can be occupied and naturally different weight categories. Therefore with the identical percentages of load they all will be trained with the different weights. It is natural that with writing of plan for the group of athletes it is not possible to provide individual qualities; therefore we recommend separately to each athlete to give additional exercises to one or other lagging group or another of muscles. The basic task of this group of athletes is further work on the mastery classical of exercises technique and the development of force. The given 3 plans are the continuation of friend- friend. I.e., knowing, when in those occupying in this group will be competitions, it is possible to count off back 3 months and boldly to take up the fulfillment of these plans. First week, the first plan as if pulling into the load. Two large trainings (on [KPSH]) on Monday and Friday even one small on Wednesday with the small percentages, maximum 75%. In the following weeks increases quantity 80- 85% weights. With required kneading 50- 60- 70 percent weights the basic work of athletes will be by 80 percent and above. 3-3,5 weeks prior to competitions for the athletes of dischargers it is compulsorily necessary to make “driving” in all 3- X competing exercises. This will help to plan initial approaches on the forthcoming competitions. Some of trainer and athletes prefer to make “drivings” almost in the week prior to the beginning of competitions. I explain this, by uncertainty in itself, by the desire to once more verify itself. This is incorrect, because athlete does not manage to restore his physical forces and most important does not manage to restore nervous system. The recent 2 weeks before the competitions we " unload” athletes, diminish the volume of load on [KPSH] and in the intensity (we diminish percentages). We proceed from the fact that if the athlete in 2-2,5 months of trainings did not accumulate force for raising the personal record weights, then more strongly no longer he will become for [poslednii] of 1-2 weeks to the competitions. But to here spend force, nervous energy completely can. During this period the trainings, when athlete left to the peak of sport uniforms, it is very important to hold athlete from his natural desire to raise 90% of weight and it is above. Task of trainer to convince athlete to preserve this thirst of the desire of the lift of maximum and submaximum weights for the forthcoming competition. The skill of trainer consists of deriving of athlete on the highest peak of sport uniforms precisely in the necessary time.
Exemplary load distribution in the weekly cycles of preparatory period with 3- X trainings. Days of the week 1 week 2 weeks 3 weeks 4 weeks 5 week Monday Average Large Average small Large Medium Small Small Small large Average Friday Average Average Large average large