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Post by erictalmant on Dec 28, 2008 9:22:08 GMT -5
I am going to agree with Eric here, 110% should be the limit, but both reasons he stated. The cns can only take so much, anything above this and the return from this might be a few steps back, the 2nd is form. The band used for anything above 110% will really take over your form, if that's the case all training has gone to crap then. 110% is still quite a bit high, for example, my best competition squat is 843, this last training cycle I have taken my heaviest reverse band squat at 885. hardly anything close to the max of 110%. I thought this might be you, Al. Thanks for crusing by and adding your input. It is much appreciated!
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Post by erictalmant on Dec 28, 2008 9:16:14 GMT -5
I could easily get creamed here and jumped from all the Sheiko groupies, but uncle Boris in terms of numbers didn't do all that much for me.. what it did do was teach me how to program my sessions and cycles to help me where most needed, helped me to realize weak points and best of all it has taught me to experiment to learn. I have ran two straight Sheiko CMS cycles without change, with little improvement, except on the deadlift. This was two years ago, the system I knew was good, but somethings had to change in order for it to work BETTER for ME. and, boy have I changed it. ahahhahahha Your results are your results and your input is valuable so thank you for sharing it. My questions to you would be: 1. Are you a CMS according to the ratings chart? 2. If so, then what kind of cycles did you run? Preparatory cycles? Competition cycles? 3. How accurate were the 1RM's that you started the program with? Did you guess or estimate? 4. What did or does you GPP look like?
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Post by erictalmant on Dec 28, 2008 9:12:03 GMT -5
we pause on our boards, though slightly. We used to crush the boards but that didn't do anything but waste our training time for 4 weeks as we saw little to no improvement. Since using a pause and controlled method, almost everyone in the gym has seen a dramatic increase. This seems to be what many folks are reporting in that pausing on the boards produces better results than "touch and go". However, I have plenty of folks that have told me that "touch and go" has worked just fine for them as well. As with anything, try both and see which one works better for you and your training partners and then report back to us with the results.
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Post by erictalmant on Dec 28, 2008 9:09:04 GMT -5
We still believe that if a lifter has developed to the level of CMS without much prior GPP work that that person can still benefit tremendously from a properly implemented GPP program. A situation like this one would require individual attention and customization, however; taking into account all of the variables, peculiarities, etc. Make sense? And how does one create that? I have been on the begginer program (13 weeks), i am now on week 8 but i have no gpp program. I have written quite a bit about GPP on Elitefts.com and in fact on several occasions I lay out GPP programs for various classifications of lifters. Run a search on Elite for "GPP" and use me as the author and you should come up with enough information to get you started properly. In addition, my St. Louis seminar DVD talks about proper GPP program design and implementation at length so you may want to get a copy of it as well when I release them next week.
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Post by erictalmant on Dec 27, 2008 12:58:40 GMT -5
Stimulation beyond 110% is "generally" the point at which one can begin to experience the law of diminishing returns. Of course, just like anything else there are individual cases; but (for example) if someone is using 120% then the impact that has on the nervous system as opposed to if they would have just used 110% is apparently a big deal and in most cases not even necessary. Finally, form is usually compromised too much with weights that exceed 110% and so now we are negating that which we set out to accomplish as well as you are now opening yourself up to a higher incidence of injury. Does this make sense? Definitely Occasionally I have trained partial squats (dead stop from pins) to improve the lockout and stability/set up so I will take it this applies to to this too. Yes-it does.
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Post by erictalmant on Dec 27, 2008 11:38:49 GMT -5
Hello all. I will begin copying the DVD's hopefully by the early part of this coming week and the first ones will be available to ship probably just after the New Year. If you attended the St. Louis seminar then your price is only $15.00 before shipping. The price for those that did not attend the seminar will be $30.00. Right now, this is only for the 3.5 hours that I spoke at the seminar. Mike and I may, at some point, offer a "package deal". In addition, I want to again emphasize that this is the "raw" footage from the seminar. In other words, no fancy things have been done to "dress up" the DVD. It is start to finish footage just the way that the attendees experienced it. Shipping options/prices will vary and we can work with what options you may want one-on-one. For each order I will accept either cashier's check, personal check, or PayPal. If choosing PayPal then I will send you an invoice based on your particulars (shipping preference, etc.) and your DVD's will ship once the invoice has been paid. If anyone has any comments or suggestions please do not hesitate to contact me. You all might want to also check out our new Sheiko Training forum which can be found here: bmfsports.proboards45.com/index.cgi?board=sheiko If you are new to the board you will have to register first. New registrations are usually approved within a few hours. Be well and Happy New Year! Eric
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Post by erictalmant on Dec 26, 2008 9:59:12 GMT -5
Surely you have seen my GPP recommendations for novices and rated lifters? ....right....?
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Post by erictalmant on Dec 26, 2008 9:58:04 GMT -5
Stimulation beyond 110% is "generally" the point at which one can begin to experience the law of diminishing returns. Of course, just like anything else there are individual cases; but (for example) if someone is using 120% then the impact that has on the nervous system as opposed to if they would have just used 110% is apparently a big deal and in most cases not even necessary. Finally, form is usually compromised too much with weights that exceed 110% and so now we are negating that which we set out to accomplish as well as you are now opening yourself up to a higher incidence of injury.
Does this make sense?
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Post by erictalmant on Dec 26, 2008 9:54:03 GMT -5
earlier in the week I aggravated my knee while squatting, so today I decided to squat with knee wraps (normally I would squat raw- although I do compete equipped). I found the groove very similar to my fully equipped squat and for this reason I was thinking this could be very beneficial to my training for equipped lifting. How could I integrate knee wraps into my training if I do not have a knee wrap only 1rm? For todays session I just stuck with my raw %, but the weights felt too easy. You would either need to, at some point, take a 1RM in knee wraps or (over time) get a really good feel for what they do for you in terms of carryover and adjust the poundages accordingly. This is sometimes where Dave's Tendo unit really comes in handy; but you can do it the old fashioned way as well. I would have to say that, in "general", the knee wraps probably do not give you more than 50 pounds carryover. Perhaps Dave can add his input since his experiences with lifters is probably more recent than mine.
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Post by erictalmant on Dec 26, 2008 9:49:05 GMT -5
I'm interested Eric, Why just GPP for the rated lifter? The primary aim of this is to develop athleticism and work the cardio system as well as increasing working capacity right? I've also been told numerous times that your cadio abilities start to drop off very quickly as soon as you stop doing them and know this from experience. Why is it important for the rated lifter to posess this but not the CMS/MS group? What if one could develop the work capacity needed to complete the programming without cardio or indeed, if one's strength levels before starting Sheiko put them in the CMS group? I do believe you, just like to know the reasoning behind everything! If one is not yet a CMS then the long hours spent doing GPP will help them raise their work capacity, flexibility, etc. to a level that is more conducive to support gains in strength. Once a lifter hits CMS it is still important for them to increase work capacity, but not in the same ways that a rated lifter does. In addition, at this level it is more beneficial for a CMS or higher to simply develop more work capacity by...doing more work (in the gym). If a rated lifter does too much work in the gym too fast they will not develop properly, burn out, get injured, or a whole host of other things. We still believe that if a lifter has developed to the level of CMS without much prior GPP work that that person can still benefit tremendously from a properly implemented GPP program. A situation like this one would require individual attention and customization, however; taking into account all of the variables, peculiarities, etc. Make sense?
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Post by erictalmant on Dec 23, 2008 18:16:28 GMT -5
And if one is a rated lifter, don't forget the GPP!
Just make sure you do it the "right" way and not one of the million bastardized ways that are out there.
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Post by erictalmant on Dec 23, 2008 18:12:55 GMT -5
Do you all see a trend developing?
It is one that Dave and I realized several years ago; and that is the more one practices with the correct percentages, the better and better they will get at the movement. It is the most basic of concepts, but in today's world many believe that it has to be more difficult and more "sexy" than this to work-but it really doesn't.
Many of us don't need to dig that deep into the bag of tricks for perhaps 4-5 years even.
Just for thought...
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Post by erictalmant on Dec 23, 2008 18:08:00 GMT -5
To your first point: yes. However, if you want a strong lockout for shirt benching then overloading the top with just straight weight for board presses, etc. is the way to go in my opinion over chains and bands. To your second point: this is tough to quantify because it varies from lifter to lifter. Let me think on this one because it might be more than just a lifter's classification. I will need to go back and review my notes. 1. Cool, I happen to agree as it goes. I just used bench with chains as an example as it is one of the few movements in the Bench Supplemental list that does overload the top end. 2. Again, cool, and take your time. I'm just curious although not bi-curious. I guess it would be useful to know though. I just might have something soon that would allow one to perhaps quantify their degree of neurological efficiency. I will post it up here when I believe it is finished.
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Post by erictalmant on Dec 23, 2008 18:06:01 GMT -5
I hope to have an update for you all very soon; I was hoping before Christmas, but I have a few things that need to be addressed before I can start copying and sending the seminar DVD's out.
I hope to have them available for purchase/shipping out within the next few days.
-Eric
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Post by erictalmant on Dec 22, 2008 18:12:03 GMT -5
Good post Ben.
I will dig up some emails and I am sure Dave has tons of them and we will see if we can light a fire under this thread because I think it is an excellent idea!
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Post by erictalmant on Dec 21, 2008 20:28:53 GMT -5
Eric, will this footage contain Tuscherer's part of the seminar as well? For the $30 it will only be my footage. I will talk to Mike and see if he wants to create a package deal for all 6 DVD's.
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Post by erictalmant on Dec 21, 2008 18:14:12 GMT -5
Yep, some great info there Eric. At some point, if a lifter is absolutely and positively certain that they are stronger in one area and weaker in another then substitutions such as the one you suggested above can certainly be made. Would you say, then, that this could be extended to not only where lifters are weak, but what they require from their training? e.g. a shirted bencher requires strong triceps for the lockout. Lets say the cycle they are following has them raw benching twice in the same session. It seems to me that switching the 2nd bench movement for one of the supplemetal SPP movements that hits the lockout harder (e.g. bench with chains) would be sensible. The reason why Dave suggests to just do the programs as written for 1-2 cycles (I say much longer) is because you may not necessarily be muscularly weak so much as you are not that neurologically efficient. Your body may not know the movement as well as you *think* it does. This is gold. Is there a way of determining between muscular weakness and neurological inefficiency then?To your first point: yes. However, if you want a strong lockout for shirt benching then overloading the top with just straight weight for board presses, etc. is the way to go in my opinion over chains and bands. To your second point: this is tough to quantify because it varies from lifter to lifter. Let me think on this one because it might be more than just a lifter's classification. I will need to go back and review my notes.
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Post by erictalmant on Dec 20, 2008 9:37:36 GMT -5
Here's a question for Dave or Eric about the supplemental/developmental thing... The developmental movements are the ones that can be chosen to be used at the end of the workout, with lighter weights, right? This seems clear as they are prescribed often in the programs (e.g. GM's or lunges). So when are the supplemental ones used? It seems that they are also in the programs, often in the 'main body' of work, e.g. pulls to knees, then full pulls. Is it the case that these supplemental SPP movements would be subbed in the programs to suit a lifters needs or weaknesses? e.g. the program as written has a lifter doing full pulls, then bench, then pulls from blocks. Lets say a lifter is great at lockout but weak off the floor. Would defecit pulls be subbed for pulls from blocks (both supplemental SPP movements)?? Yes, the developmental exercises (described above) use lighter loads. However, good mornings would be considered supplemental SPP for the squat and deadlift. I think my post above will also clarify the other part of your question. At some point, if a lifter is absolutely and positively certain that they are stronger in one area and weaker in another then substitutions such as the one you suggested above can certainly be made. The reason why Dave suggests to just do the programs as written for 1-2 cycles (I say much longer) is because you may not necessarily be muscularly weak so much as you are not that neurologically efficient. Your body may not know the movement as well as you *think* it does. It takes a good 2-4 years to perfect skill in movement. Has anyone on here done this? Can anyone on here say that their movement patterns are excellent? Walk before you decide to run.
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Post by erictalmant on Dec 20, 2008 9:32:05 GMT -5
Classification of Exercises:
Competition Exercises Special Preparatory Exercises General Preparatory Exercises
The competition exercises are the actual exercises of the sport competition i.e. the squat, bench press, and the deadlift. The powerlifting competition exercises play an obvious important role in one’s training since without them it is impossible to fully provide the athlete with the specific requirements of the squat, bench press, and the deadlift.
Special preparatory exercises are made up of components and variations of the competition exercises. They are very similar in regards to the form and the character of the abilities displayed. Depending upon the primary emphasis of the SPP exercises, we can further categorize to supplementary and developmental.
Supplementary SPP exercises: Designed to help the athlete master the form of the movement. These exercises, depending upon their coordination demands, methods of training and amount and type of resistance improve and solidify the development of the necessary physical qualities and *should* greatly contribute to perfecting technical mastery. Since athletes lift heavy weights and work at great power, this group-along with the competition exercises-is the fundamental group in the powerlifter’s training.
Examples of Supplementary SPP Exercises: Can all be found in the Sheiko Book in each section i.e. squat, bench, deadlift.
Squat: box squats, front squats, squatting with tempo and form manipulations Bench: wide grip, board presses, close grip bench, tempo manipulations, etc. Deadlift: DL from deficit, to the knees, from blocks (rack lockouts), tempo manipulations
Developmental SPP exercises: Emphasize the development of physical qualities that contribute to the execution of the competition exercises. They can be done with barbells, machines, with kettle bells and other types of resistances (bands and chains). For the most part they have a local effect, are executed with smaller weights, and thus the power developed is comparatively small. Thus the training parameters need to be quite different than the competition exercises.
Developmental exercises also serve as additional means in physical preparation (GPP) but not limited to this role. They should always be executed with a large range of motion (and in all directions) in the joints to have a positive impact on the development of the tendons and ligaments-very important! The strength of tendons and ligaments increases slowly when compared to muscle which can affect speed-strength which can result in injury. That is why it is recommended to devote training time to strengthening the tendons and ligaments by doing voluminous work (comparatively) with low intensity.
In order to properly and accurately evaluate training the exercises in the first group (competition and supplementary) are counted as fundamental loading and the second group (developmental) is considered as additional. They are both calculated and analyzed separately.
General Preparatory Exercises: These are the most extensive and most diverse group of training “exercises”. This is where the powerlifter becomes athletic and maintains that athleticism in general ways as well as specific ways inherent to powerlifting.
Functions of G.P.P.: 1)”The formation, strengthening, or restoration of the skills which play an auxiliary role in sport perfection”. 2)”As a means of educating abilities, developed insufficiently by one’s sport which preserves or raises the general work capacity”. As active rest, assisting the restoration processes after significant specific loading and counteracting the monotony of one’s training”.
General Preparatory Exercises for weightlifters/powerlifters: Acceleration runs of 400-1000 meters, jumping exercises, track and field exercises (shot put, hammer, etc.), kettle bell exercises, strongman exercises, gymnastics, acrobatics, sport games (basketball, soccer, football, etc.), cycling, mountain biking, rowing, swimming, hiking, skiing, etc. The objective is to be active and athletic and hone skills that powerlifting does not touch.
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Post by erictalmant on Dec 19, 2008 13:05:07 GMT -5
Ben:
I should be able to get to this thread either later tonight or sometime over the weekend.
Good questions!
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